Best DAC chip

[Audiofreak71]

To take it a step further, imagine that there were only a handful of engine manufacturers out there, and that each car manufacturer had to select an engine from those few manufacturers to put in their car.

Some car manufacturers might choose simply plonk the engine in the car with the basic, OEM ECU tune, a basic exhaust, crappy 3 speed auto gearbox, and call it day. There are DACs that fit this description - plenty of them! The car would perform just fine... but it's not necessarily optimised.

Others might tweak the ECU tune, fit high performance exhausts, a nice DSG dual-clutch gearbox, and derive noticeably better performance from the same base engine. There are DACs that fit this description too - where greater attention is paid to the analogue and digital stages, and the power supplies vs the standard 'datasheet' implementation that is so often trotted out. Same engine, different implementation, different result.

The DAC chip itself is only part of the sonic equation.

Very good analogy.

Audiofreak71

 

[tomlinmgt]

I have an Atoll DAC 100 sitting unused and it uses Burr Brown chips...1796, maybe? I changed out the stock main caps for Clarity Caps and heard a slight improvement, but now the talk of an opamp swap in this thread has me curious. What could I expect with such a modification?

 

[E-Stat]

What could I expect with such a modification?

Follow the link in post #18 for my experience.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Follow the link in post #18 for my experience.

Thanks...I’ll check that out.

I suppose the first logical step for me would be to determine what my Atoll is using for stock opamps and whether or not they’re a socket type.

 

[E-Stat]

I suppose the first logical step for me would be to determine what my Atoll is using for stock opamps and whether or not they’re a socket type.

It sure looks to me all three of their current models use a zero feedback (op amps use tons of NFB) discrete based output stage like that of my Audio Research DAC8. You're there!

Note all the FETs located to the lower right of the 100's board:


edit: I just located this pic from a Google search and find it is from the 6 Moons review of the DAC-100 from 2010.

 

[tomlinmgt]

It sure looks to me all three of their current models use a zero feedback (op amps use tons of NFB) discrete based output like that of my Audio Research DAC8. You're there!

My unit was in production starting around ‘12, IIRC. I think 5 Moons reviewed it. I’ll do some research a little later when I have some time.

 

[tomlinmgt]

It sure looks to me all three of their current models use a zero feedback (op amps use tons of NFB) discrete based output stage like that of my Audio Research DAC8. You're there!

Note all the FETs located to the lower right of the 100's board:
View attachment 1524143

edit: I just located this pic from a Google search and find it is from the 6 Moons review of the DAC-100 from 2010.

Ok...so 2010, a little older than I thought.
Does having FET’s mean discrete output?

 

[E-Stat]

Does having FET’s mean discrete output?

Yes, sorry. Those are likely JFETs - the best type for small signal use which don't need corrective feedback for linear operation. Another discrete option would be triodes (tubes).

The Burson modules I used also employ FieldEffectTransistors.

 

[thomo57]

Here is a list

http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/#M

 

[xero-D-hero]

Here is a list

http://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/#M

I had to break their list down somewhat to make it easier to see which DAC's use what chip.
So I have the DAC's all listed seperately so I can quickly see which models use what chip.

Example: the TDA 1541 & PCM 63 DACs (no cdps listed here though folks,sorry)

PCM63 DAC List:
------------------------
ACCUPHASE DC-91 ~ 16 x PCM63P-K - SM5842AP ~ D/A converter
ADCOM GDA-600 ~ 2 x PCM63P-J - DF1700P - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
APOGEE DA-1000 ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - YM3434 ~ D/A converter
ARAGON D2A2 ~ 2 x PCM63P-J - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter
AUDIO NOTE DAC 1 ~ 2 x PCM63P - DF1700P - YM3623B ~ D/A converter
AUDIO NOTE DAC 2 ~ 2 x PCM63P-J - DF1700P - YM3623B ~ D/A converter
AUDIO NOTE DAC 3 ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - YM3623B ~ D/A converter
AUDIO SYNTHESIS DA-X ~ 2 x PCM63P / D20400A - SM5803APT ~ D/A converter
AUDIOMECA AMBROSIA ~ 2 x PCM63P / AD1865N - SM5843AP ~ D/A converter
AVM EVOLUTION DAC1 ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - YM3623B ~ D/A converter
BITWISE MUSIK SYSTEM ZERO ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - YM3623B ~ D/A converter
CAMELOT UTHER V2.0 ~ 4 x PCM63P-J - PMD100 - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
CARROZZERIA CDX-M80 ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - SM5813AF ~ D/A converter
CELLO MUSIC SERIES 8.1 DAC ~ 2 x PCM63P-K ~ D/A converter
CLARION X-DA1 ~ 4 x PCM63P-K + 2 x DF1700P + YM3623B ~ D/A converter
CREEK DAC 60 ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - YM3623B ~ D/A converter
EAD DSP-1000 SERIES II ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
EAD DSP-1000 SERIES III ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - PMD100 - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
EAD DSP-7000 SERIES II ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
EAD DSP-7000 SERIES III ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - PMD100 - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
EAD DSP-9000 PRO ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - PMD100 - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
EAD TheaterMaster ~ 6 x PCM63P-K + 3 x PMD100 ~ D/A converter
KRELL STUDIO ~ 2 x PCM63P-K + 2 x Motorola DSP56001 ~ D/A converter
LECTOR DIGICODE 2.20 ~ 2 x PCM63P - SM5843AP - CS8414-CS ~ D/A converter
LINN NUMERIK ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P ~ D/A converter
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 22A ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - YM3436D ~ D/A converter
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 22B ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - SM5813APT - YM3436D ~ D/A converter
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 22C ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - SM5813APT - YM3436D ~ D/A converter
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 24 ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1704 - CS8414 ~ D/A converter
MONARCHY AUDIO MODEL 33 ~ 2x PCM63P-K - SM5813APT ~ D/A converter
MUSE MODEL TWO ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
MUSE MODEL TWO PLUS ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - PMD100 - CS8412 ~ D/A converter
PARASOUND D/AC-1000 ~ 2 x PCM63P-J - SM5813AP - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
PARASOUND D/AC-1100 HD ~ 2 x PCM63P-J - PMD100 - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
PARASOUND D/AC-1500 ~ 4 x PCM63P-K - SM5813AP - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
PARASOUND D/AC-1600 HD ~ 4 x PCM63P-K - PMD100 - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
PASS LABS DIGITAL 1 ~ 4 x PCM63P-K - SM5813AP - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
PATHOS INTRANSFER ~ 2 x PCM63P-K ~ D/A converter
PIONEER CDX-M80 ~ 2 x PCM63P - SM5813AF ~ D/A converter
PROCEED PDP3 ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - SM5803APT ~ D/A converter
PS AUDIO SL THREE ~ 2 x PCM63P-J - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter
SENTEC DIANA ~ 2 x PCM63P - DF1700P - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
STAX DAC-TALENT ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - SM5803APT - YM3623B ~ D/A converter
TEAC D-30 ESOTERIC ~ 8 x PCM63P-K ~ D/A converter
THETA DS PRO GENERATION III ~ 2 x PCM63P-K + 3 x Motorola 56001 ~ D/A converter
THETA DS PRO GENERATION V ~ 2 or 4 x PCM63P-K + 3 x Motorola 56001 ~ D/A converter
USHER DA20ST ~ 2 x PCM63P-K - DF1700P - YM3623B ~ D/A converter
WADIA 9 ~ 8 x PCM63P-K - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
WADIA 15 ~ 4 x PCM63P-K - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter
YAMAHA DA8X ~ 8 x PCM63P-Y + 4 x SM5803APT ~ D/A converter
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TDA1541 DAC List:
--------------------------
ARCAM DELTA BOX 1 ~ Philips TDA1541A - SAA7220P/B ~ D/A converter.
ARCAM DELTA BOX 2 ~ Philips TDA1541A ~ D/A converter.
AVI S2000MD ~ Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single Crown) ~ D/A converter.
BEARD DAP-1 ~ 3 x Philips TDA1541A - YM3623B ~ D/A converter.
BRINKMANN ZENITH ~ Philips TDA1541 - CXD1076 ~ D/A converter.
CAMBRIDGE AUDIO DAC 3 D/A ~ 4 x Philips TDA1541A-S1 ~ D/A converter.
LECTOR DIGICODE ~ Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single Crown) ~ D/A converter.
LINX SIGMA ~ Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single Crown) ~ D/A converter.
MARANTZ DA-12 ~ Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single / Double Crown) ~ D/A converter.
MARANTZ CDA-94 ~ Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single Crown) ~ D/A converter.
MARANTZ PROJECT D-1 ~ 2 x Philips TDA1541A-S2 (Double Crown) ~ D/A converter.
MICROMEGA DUETTO ~ Philips TDA1541A ~ D/A converter.
MICROMEGA DUO ~ Philips TDA1541A ~ D/A converter.
MUSICAL FIDELITY DIGILOG ~ Philips TDA1541A ~ D/A converter.
NAKAMICHI 1000p ~ 2 x Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single Crown) ~ D/A converter.
NAKAMICHI DA-101p ~ 2 x Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single Crown) ~ D/A converter.
NAKAMICHI DA-111p ~ 2 x Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single Crown) ~ D/A converter.
NAKAMICHI DAC-101 Mobile ~ 2 x Philips TDA1541A-S1 - YM3414 - PD0037 ~ D/A converter.
PHILIPS DAC960 ~ 1 x Philips TDA1541A ~ D/A converter.
SONY DAS-R1 ~ 2 x Philips TDA1541A-S1 - CXD1144 ~ D/A converter.
SUGDEN SDA-1 ~ Philips TDA1541A-S1 (Single Crown) ~ D/A converter.
TEAC D-500 ~ 2 x Philips TDA1541A-S1 - SM5813APT ~ D/A converter.
ZANDEN MODEL 5000 ~ Philips TDA1541A-S2 (Double Crown) ~ D/A converter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now mind you that was a mind numbing process and I could've easily missed a unit or two.
So dont consider the list definitive by any measure,this was just an informal polling of the Dutch Audio Classic DAC list.
But thanks go to D.A.C. for their listing which made the task possible in the first place.

I also made lists like that for the PCM1701 PCM1702 PCM1704 and UA20400 as well as a few others.

FWIW ~ HTH

Bret P.

 

[mjw21a]

@xero-D-hero Add the Muji Studio DAC II to the TDA1541A R1. I swapped the R1 for an S1 in my unit though.

 

[xero-D-hero]

@xero-D-hero Add the Muji Studio DAC II to the TDA1541A R1. I swapped the R1 for an S1 in my unit though.

That's not really my list per-se...
It's a list I previously culled from the Dutch Audio Classics DAC list that thomo57 had linked to.
I mean yeah sure I'll make another entry for that one in my copy of the list just for the sake of being thorough.

But there's no need to add it to the list here as you've already done so with your post above.



Bret P.

 

[lini]

(...) and the use of multiple DAC chips in series to lower noise.

Uhm, in series??? Shouldn't that rather be in parallel? Because how one could use several DAC chips in series would be beyond me, given that a DAC chip would usually seem to expect a digital input signal.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[cpt_paranoia]

Now mind you that was a mind numbing process and I could've easily missed a unit or two.

egrep -i '1541' cdp.txt > tda1541.txt

Yes, you missed a lot. I get 249... And 83 with PCM63.

 

[xero-D-hero]

Yes, you missed a lot. I get 249... And 83 with PCM63.

As should have been clear above,,,I did'nt list any CD players at all...
I just listed the stand-alone D/A Convertors.

No way I missed 226 TDA1541 DACs,,,there were never that many brands/models of stand-alone TDA1541 DAC's made to begin with ...
Nor did I miss 33 PCM63 DACs,that was a high end DAC chip so it was'nt often used in CDP's,so I'm pretty sure that's where your "extras" are coming from.
So you must be tossing the TDA1541/PCM63 CDP's in with the stand-alone DAC's,so that mistake is on you,not me..

Anyone wants the CDP's listed like that I guess they'll hafta go numb their own brain some.
And fwiw that sorta list would be best posted over in the digital sources forum.
Not this forum which is the DAC forum.

FWIW

Bret P.

 

[cpt_paranoia]

I just listed the stand-alone D/A Convertors.

So you did. I missed that; apologies.

My post was only meant as a light-hearted example of the use of egrep to easily pull such selections from a list, to avoid the 'mind-numbing process' you described; it wasn't meant as some sort of terrible accusation.

 

[xero-D-hero]

it wasn't meant as some sort of terrible accusation.

It was'nt taken that way.

Your post was entirely cryptic from my POV,I had no idea what you were trying to get across except to say that I was wrong.
I just made my comments (ie: the contents of that DAC list) 100% perfectly clear.
I did so as that way there should'nt be any further confusion by anyone else reading this thread.

See,not everyone out here knows WTF egrep is... Me,I still dont know,nor do I really care.
From the sound of things it would've needed some further effort to ween out the TDA1541/PCM63 DACs from the CDP's.

In the end would that have really been any easier ???
I honeslty dunno,I guess some of us are just gluttons for punishment.



Bret P.

 

[bobschneider]

Don't forget the UltraAnalog D20400 and D20400A, which were considered the top of the line ladder DAC before the market switched to delta sigma technology. I have a PS Audio Ultralink 2 which uses the D20400A, and it's a very nice sounding DAC. I also have players which use the TDA1541 and PCM63 DACs, but I think the D20400A is a little more "analog" sounding.

 

[xero-D-hero]

Don't forget the UltraAnalog D20400 and D20400A, which were considered the top of the line ladder DAC before the market switched to delta sigma technology. I have a PS Audio Ultralink 2 which uses the D20400A, and it's a very nice sounding DAC. I also have players which use the TDA1541 and PCM63 DACs, but I think the D20400A is a little more "analog" sounding.

I also made lists like that for the PCM1701 PCM1702 PCM1704 and UA20400 as well as a few others.

Here's that DAC list:

UA D20400/D20400A DAC List:
-----------------------------------------
APRIL MUSIC Reference DAC ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
AUDIO RESEARCH DAC1-20 ~ 1 x D20400 - SM5803APT - YM3623B ~ D/A converter.
AUDIO RESEARCH DAC2 ~ 1 x D20400A - SM5803APT - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter.
AUDIO SYNTHESIS DAX-2 ~ 2 x UA D20400A - SM5842AP / PMD100 ~ D/A converter.
AUDIO SYNTHESIS DAX-Decade ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter.
AVANTGARDE B1 DAC ~ 1 x UA D20400 ~ D/A converter.
CLASSE AUDIO DAC-1 ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
COUNTERPOINT DA-10-UA ~ 1 x UltraAnalog D20400 - DF1700P ~ D/A converter.
Kinergetics Research KCD-55 Ultra ~ 2 x UA D20400 - CXD1144B - YM3623B ~ D/A converter.
LANGEVIN 20 BIT DAC ~ 1 x UA D20400A - SM5813APT - YM3623B ~ D/A converter.
LECTOR DIGICODE 2.24 ~ 4 x PCM1704 - SM5842AP - CS8414-CS ~ D/A converter.
MANLEY A TO D CONVERTER ~ 2 x UltraAnalog D20400A ~ D/A converter.
MANLEY JUNIOR 20 BIT DAC ~ 1 x UA D20400A - SM5813APT - YM3623B ~ D/A converter.
MANLEY Reference 20 Bit DAC ~ 2 x UA D20400A - SM5803AP - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
MANLEY Reference 20 Bit DAC HDCD ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
MANLEY WAVE ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
MARK LEVINSON No 30 ~ 2 x UA D20400 - SM5803AP - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter.
MARK LEVINSON No 30.5 ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - CS8412-CP ~ D/A converter.
MARK LEVINSON No 35 ~ 2 x UA D20400A - SM5803APT / PMD100 ~ D/A converter.
METAXAS MASDAC ~ 1 x UltraAnalog D20400 - SM5813AP ~ D/A converter.
PARASOUND D/AC-2000 ~ 1 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
PS AUDIO REFERENCE LINK LS ~ 1 x UA D20400A + 2 x AD1860N-K ~ D/A converter.
PS AUDIO ULTRALINK ~ 1 x UA D20400 - SM5803AP - YM3623B ~ D/A converter.
PS AUDIO ULTRALINK TWO ~ 1 x UA D20400A - SM5803APT - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
PS AUDIO ULTRALINK TWO HDCD ~ 1 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
Resolution Audio QUANTUM ~ 1 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
SONIC FRONTIERS Processor 3 ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
SONIC FRONTIERS SFCD-1 ~ 1 x UltraAnalog D20400A - PMD100 ~ Philips CDM-12.4
SONIC FRONTIERS SFD-1 ~ 1 x D20400A - SM5803APT - UA AES20 ~ D/A converter.
SONIC FRONTIERS SFD-1 Mk II ~ 1 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES20 ~ D/A converter.
SONIC FRONTIERS SFD-2 ~ 2 x UA D20400A - SM5803APT - UA AES20 ~ D/A converter.
SONIC FRONTIERS SFD-2 Mk II ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
SPECTRAL SDR-2000 ~ 2 x UltraAnalog D20400A - PMD100 ~ D/A converter.
STAX DAC-X1T ~ 2 x UltraAnalog D20400 - SM5803APT ~ D/A converter.
THRESHOLD DAC 2 ~ 2 x UA D20400A - PMD100 - UA AES21 ~ D/A converter.
VTL 20-BIT DAC ~ 2 x UA D20400 - SM5803APT - YM3623B ~ D/A converter.
VTL STRAIGHT-LINE ~ 1 x UA D20400A - SM5803APT - YM3623B ~ D/A converter.

And again the credit really goes to the Dutch Audio Classics website as this was culled from their list,so credit is given where due.

FWIW ~ HTH

Bret P.

 

[cpt_paranoia]

In the end would that have really been any easier ???

Easier than sorting by hand? Most certainly. One simple command line will extract the required entries. Took about 20 seconds to enter, and the result is instant

That's the great thing about Unix productivity tools like grep. If you ever have to do any sort of text processing like this again, have a look at those tools. Even if it takes you a few minutes to find a guide and figure out how to make it work, it will save you a lot of time and tedious effort.