Best DAC chip

[whell]

I’ve loved the sound of a Zodiac Audio Antelope for several years now, with zero desire to replace it. It uses Burr Brown's 1792-A chip, but also has a bunch of other interesting things going on under the hood to optimize what the Unit is able to extract from the chip. Might break down one of these days and get the improved power supply, but really enjoy the music this thing makes (as well as what it does for movie sound tracks).

 

[scottdavis08]

Looks like im playing the same game i did with sub $500 phono preamps. That was until i bought the Schiit mani with Swagman labs psu. At any rate, i can't find anything that sounds close to the audio spectrum that Schiit Audio put out, so either multibit modi, or bifrost, i will try. I truly just believe these guys aren't ****ing around like the rest!

 

[xero-D-hero]

Mike Moffat (co-owner/designer @ Schiit) has publicly stated he feels the best DAC chip ever was the PCM63.
He even stated that he prefered the PCM63 over the later PCM1702 -or- PCM1704 chips.

THETA DS PRO GENERATION III ~ 2 x PCM63P-K + 3 x Motorola 56001 ~ D/A converter
THETA DS PRO GENERATION V ~ 2 or 4 x PCM63P-K + 3 x Motorola 56001 ~ D/A converter

Also,do note that he (Mike Moffat) was woking as a designer @ Theta when they were selling ^^^^ these.

So it would be a safe bet that if he had a steady/reliable supply of those PCM63 chips,he'd still be selling DACs using them today.
As would most the other DAC makers...

DAC co.s are largely at the mercy of the chip makers.
All the DAC co.s can do is make the best DACs they can with the chips that the chip makers are willing to sell 'em.

Me,I'd love to see what they could build these days with an older R2R chip like that PCM63.

FWIW

Bret P.

 

[xdd]

So it would be a safe bet that if he had a steady/reliable supply of those PCM63 chips,he'd still be selling DACs using them today.
As would most the other DAC makers...

I think you're probably right about Mike but wrong about the others. Most DAC makers today care about measurements and while PCM63's measurements are perfectly respectable IMO they don't reach up to the numbers being delivered by AKM and ESS nowadays. Designing multibit DACs is definitely a minority sport these days.

 

[MechEngVic]

Implementation implementation implementation. It doesn't matter what chip is used, it depends on how the whole DAC is designed.

This. Amirm over at Audioscience does a pretty good job of showing just how true this is.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ad-distortion-comparison-graph-for-dacs.4814/

 

[xdd]

It does turn out to matter which chip is used. Just not as much as all the other stuff matters (power supplies, layout, filtering etc etc). Implementation is still king but that doesn't relegate the particular chip to total irrelevance.

 

[Audiofreak71]

@xdd @botrytis You both are right , as said before it’s the implementation of the two and finding the synergy between the chip/chips , analog devices , power supplies etc if it all comes together then the marriage will be good , then it’s up to the user if they like that sound or not.

Audiofreak71

 

[mjw21a]

I've recently discovered that the Phillips TDA1387 is right up there with the TDA1541..... Especially when 4 or more are paralleled.

I'm running a DAC based on this board in my second system. Absolutely fantastic sounding unit with a pair of LME49860NA OPAMPS intalled (it fries Bursons) and SAA7220P and TDA1541A S1..... I need to try it with one of the 8x TDA1387 modules eventually.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hifi-DA...634633?hash=item1eec5e7e89:g:c6AAAOSwlxxbvbuv

 

[saratoga]

How about R2R DAC??
AUDIOLAB DAC is fantastic...
only support & drivers updating from AUDIOLAB SUCK!!!

 

[xdd]

R2R is normally used to indicate DACs that aren't delta-sigma types. Non-S-D DACs are really 'multibit' types and R2R is a name for one particular way to implement a multibit DAC. There are other ways to skin the cat as R2R does have a few disadvantages in audio applications so many commercial DAC chips use a modified form of R2R (e.g. PCM63, PCM1704). Philips (e.g. TDA1541, TDA1387) as far as I'm aware have never made an R2R chip, they use current sources rather than resistors to build theirs.

 

[whitwye]

It does turn out to matter which chip is used. Just not as much as all the other stuff matters (power supplies, layout, filtering etc etc). Implementation is still king but that doesn't relegate the particular chip to total irrelevance.

I've ended up with a system where I can switch between two DAC chips and related circuits for CDs. The CD deck is an Emotiva ERC-3 with AD1955 DACs, while the pre-pro is a Yamaha CX-A5100 with ES9016Ss. Balanced connectors use the AD1955s in the Emotiva; an optical connector sends the signal through the Yamaha's DACs. I've got the Yamaha using its -6db filter as the XLR signals come in relatively hot. Switching back and forth, with that, the overall volume stays the same. The tonality is distinctly different. The ADs have a drier, cleaner sound; the ESSs are a richer sound from the midrange down, perhaps a bit too rich but nicely detailed, yet less detail in the cymbals. The ADs are less fatiguing. The rest of the circuit stays the same when flipping between the two (Emotiva BasX amps, Emotiva T1 mains, small Klipsch surrounds when I use them). The sound's pleasing both ways (and either way is far better than sending the signal through RCA cables from the CD deck -- and even that was far better than when it was RCA from that deck to a Onkyo TX-NR828 used just as preamp -- the Yamaha is far superior gear overall, as it should be for the price point). No big lesson from this, except that DACs, even very good ones, can be quite different.

 

[xdd]

A lot of that difference in sound is likely from the I/V stages - drier sound tends to mean to me more low frequency noise. Less detail (so long as its not fake detail) means more signal-correlated noise. The AD1955 is the easier DAC to implement as it has true current-source outputs, ESS is an array of resistors which needs to be fed from a very noise noise, low impedance supply. Fatiguing sound IME is correlated with sibilance, which is a form of IMD often encountered when bipolar IPS opamps are exposed to high levels of RF (as typically come out of a DAC chip). I'm speculating here as I don't know the particular implementation details of those two DACs.

 

[Modlin]

That’s a weird thread-starting question.
It’s like asking what’s the best engine in a sports car.

boxer N/A 3.6L Porsche...

 

[sfseay]

I would say the best DAC “chip” isn’t a chip at all but the implementation of the Ring DAC from dCS. Give it a listen on one of their many dCS DACs that use their proprietary Ring DAC technology.

 

[BGRoss]

Going to toss this in and fully expect to be tossed out of this conversation but here goes...
Picking up a Muse Model Two to try and initiate into a lossless streaming chain via my iPad and wirelessly with Airport Express.
So... AirPort Extreme router, 1st gen AirPort Express wireless transmitter, iPad and want to introduce the Model Two between the Express and my integrated. What cable do I need knowing that the Express 3.5mm jack output is also a digital optical output. Is there a 3.5mm digital to Coax cable that works or is there a converter needed?
My brother used this with his Creek transport and is/was nothing short of breathtaking the way it took a CD and reshaped the music; wonderful piece! I just want to use it to better the lossless experience via Tidal and my iPad
Any help u can offer is greatly appreciated!
Thoughts?

 

[linuxfan]

BGRoss, yes, you're thread-jacking, but I will answer anyway, and it's up to the admins whether to shift these posts.
Your source device is the AirPort Express (good choice, by the way) so you need to connect this to your DAC. But the only digital output from an AirPort Express is optical s/pdif (sometimes called "Toslink")
and the MUSE Model Two, in standard form, only has coaxial s/pdif input. I understand that MUSE offered an optional optical s/pdif input for $200, and it's unlikely that this option could be retrofitted today, so you would need to find a MUSE which already had this option fitted ...
of course it's also possible to fit one of those cheap optical-to-coaxial adapter boxes, but these are notorious for adding jitter, and probably not in keeping with the high end nature of the MUSE DAC.

I must say that if you are looking for such a high-end product there are modern equivalents which are likely to be as good, if not better, such as the RME ADI-2 (non "PRO" version) or Topping D70, or even the Topping D50s.

 

[BGRoss]

TY linuxfan for weighing in. I have a line on a Rega DAC with all the inputs & connections needed, just hoped to find a way to integrate the Muse into my system. From all I’ve read by way of recommendations and reviews it’s a special piece. The adaptor box isn’t exactly the way I was hoping to go but if there’s a quality one out there perhaps I can source it and give the Model Two a twirl. I can return the Muse if not happy with the end game. Thanks again!

 

[linuxfan]

Well you seem to be gung-ho about the MUSE DAC.
Come to think of it, adding an optical input to a s/pdif receiver requires only a simple Toslink interface, plus a few resistors and capacitors. You could potentially buy just the receiver board, and have a technician install it for you. Make sure you get such a board with the Toshiba TORX 147L interface, such as this -
https://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/83-192k-optical-spdif-receiver.html

This will unlikely be as good as the genuine MUSE optical input board - for $200 I suspect they do some additional trickery to mitigate jitter - but beggars can't be choosers.

Then again, you could take the reverse approach and replace your AirPort Express with a Raspberry Pi, running shareport-sync, which acts as an AirPlay receiver. Then add a s/pdif output hat to the Raspberry Pi -
https://www.allo.com/sparky/digione.html
and you now have an AirPlay receiver with coaxial s/pdif output.

 

[BGRoss]

Not so much gung-ho on the Muse... just keep reading what a valued piece it is and would like to hear it play with my modest gear. All the adding of input boards is more than likely not an option as the owner won’t let me do all that the decide on a purchase. I’m just looking for a simple connection solution to bring it home and plug it into the chain. Maybe the Rega is the better option for me, not sure. Just hate to pass on the Muse if there’s a more simple solution like a good interface as described.
Thanks for your help. This forum is quite the place for tech and product info!

 

[cpt_paranoia]

for $200 I suspect they do some additional trickery to mitigate jitter

They will need to do decent clock recovery whatever the SPDIF source; optical or coax. ANY decent DAC these days should not be susceptible to input jitter. $200 dollars seems a lot of money for adding a toslink receiver.