Best improvement / bang for buck

[EL Duke-A]

I have a hodge podge system. Onkyo sr706, martin logan 50xti center, vintage infinity rs iii fronts power by b&k st3140, some vintage ar bookshelf rears set up wirelessly, and 2 svs pb 2000 subs.

been fiddling with receiver settings for a while and just can seem to get it where i’m happy... it just feels like its missing something.

i use it for movies/tv (roku through nice samsung) and sound is dolby digital which is nice... but when i’m listening to analog coming in from spotify app on roku, i’m using PL II THX Music and its decent... but not as good as it should be given equipment... at least in my mind.

room is probably 14ft by 30 ft with 7ft ceiling - finished basement area. Carpet floor over concrete slab. Tv/equipment and Listening position are opposite the 14ft dimension. There is a fair amount of soft furniture in room and ceiling has several lower boxed in sections hiding duckwork/water lines etc... so a decent room for acoustics.

i dont mind spending money - but i want it to matter if f i do.

considered getting martin logan 60xti fronts but wondering if that would even be improvement over my infinity rs iii...

so - where would you start?

 

[Duane]

Can't speak for your Onkyo, but my preamp/processor has PLII as well. It has several modes for PLII and I keep it on the Movie mode, even for music. Sounds natural to my ears.

 

[EL Duke-A]

Thanks for reply... helpful. I was liking movie mode as well... it does heavy load center channel for me... a mode for music between the two might be ideal.

by “cant speak to your onkyo” - curious - are you suggesting its a weak link or just that you dont have knowledge of it. Just confirming.

thanks again.

 

[Duane]

by “cant speak to your onkyo” - curious - are you suggesting its a weak link or just that you dont have knowledge of it. Just confirming.

thanks again.

Don't have the knowledge of it from a reference point comparing it to what I have with respect to the sound.

 

[JoeESP9]

The Yamaha receiver in my bedroom has a setting for "straight" (2 channel stereo/no DSP). I've tried all the various DSP settings and for music it stays on straight. But then, I let it automatically select what it thinks best for the audio from video/TV. I've never been fond of any of the various venue or custom sound fields that are available.

 

[isotopesope]

Are there audio quality settings for the app’s output you can adjust? No direct experience with Spotify on a Roku, but a lot of reviews on the internet describe the app just sounds bad in general.

Does your AVR have Bluetooth? If not, you could try a Bluetooth receiver with a good dac. Heard good things about the Audio Engine B1.

 

[EL Duke-A]

Thanks for input guys - if i asked you to call out my systems potential weak point... would you say, matching fronts to center, new avr, play around with speaker/sub placement, other...??

 

[whoaru99]

Well, speaking strictly for movies (but I'd have to image same applies if using a mode that activates center for music too), having a timbre matching/correct center is very important to a smooth front stage. But, it's pretty hard to say unless that mystery "something" can be pinned down a bit more.

 

[isotopesope]

Thanks for input guys - if i asked you to call out my systems potential weak point... would you say, matching fronts to center, new avr, play around with speaker/sub placement, other...??

Beyond Spotify sounding bad, what are your other complaints?

When you say you’re running the Roku “analog” do you mean you’re running analog RCAs out of the Roku and into your AVR? I’m suspect of your Roku as being the bad sounding music culprit. Is streaming your main mode for music via this system? Do music CDs via your DVD/Blu-ray player sound good?

I agree with the notion of matching your LCR speakers to have the same timbre. You can also experiment with setting it up as a phantom center, where the LR speakers also handle center duties, so you don’t use a center speaker. That would take the mismatched timbre concept out of the mix for now. Are you running your LRs as “large” or “full range” with no crossover point?

I wouldn’t necessarily upgrade your AVR unless you need 4K or other features... that Onkyo seems decent, if it suits your needs. Perhaps you can experiment with speaker placement and rerun the Audyssey setup? Sounds like it’s only functioning as a preamp/processor, so if you do upgrade would you go with separates?

I’m using Marantz separates and Klipsch RP series speakers for my 5.0 setup and am extremely pleased with how everything sounds. I use it mainly for TV/games/movies, and a bit of music... but I have a separate 2 channel system that’s dedicated for music.

 

[EL Duke-A]

Covered in next post

 

[EL Duke-A]

Beyond Spotify sounding bad, what are your other complaints?

When you say you’re running the Roku “analog” do you mean you’re running analog RCAs out of the Roku and into your AVR? I’m suspect of your Roku as being the bad sounding music culprit. Is streaming your main mode for music via this system? Do music CDs via your DVD/Blu-ray player sound good?

I agree with the notion of matching your LCR speakers to have the same timbre. You can also experiment with setting it up as a phantom center, where the LR speakers also handle center duties, so you don’t use a center speaker. That would take the mismatched timbre concept out of the mix for now. Are you running your LRs as “large” or “full range” with no crossover point?

I wouldn’t necessarily upgrade your AVR unless you need 4K or other features... that Onkyo seems decent, if it suits your needs. Perhaps you can experiment with speaker placement and rerun the Audyssey setup? Sounds like it’s only functioning as a preamp/processor, so if you do upgrade would you go with separates?

I’m using Marantz separates and Klipsch RP series speakers for my 5.0 setup and am extremely pleased with how everything sounds. I use it mainly for TV/games/movies, and a bit of music... but I have a separate 2 channel system that’s dedicated for music.

you make many good points.

Roku sound is optical into receiver. Spotify app in roku only puts out analog signal.

will try other music paths to compare. Spotify signal quality options apply to phone app, but roku app has no setting for this. You may be on to something here. Will test phone direct to pre and report back.

i bought the onkyo 2nd hand so dont have audessey calibration mic or i would do this. Spot on with this call out.

onkyo is largely functioning as preamp. Could consider going to actual processor but my hunch is you are spot on with onkyo being a decent pre... only using for audio too... hdmi runs are direct to tv w/ optical sound to receiver.

fronts have frequency range down to 40 hrz... crossing them over at 50hrz for the sub... center range ends at 50 so crossing that over at 60. Played around with this and i like these settings i think.

started using pl II thx cinema mode for analog music signal as suggested last night and i think i actually do like it best as listening mode for music, but still feels a bit center heavy though center is clear and crisp and full

before going after “timber” which i’m skeptical of, going to target input/source of music quality and speaker placement. Fronts & center are both 4 ohms. Center is more efficient but adjusted gain calibration for fronts and used db app to ensure all are outputting approx equal levels. Its really well balanced for movies which cone through dolby digital.

May also seek audessey mic on ebay for this model. Seems those mics were specific/calibrated to receivers so i can’t just use any mic... not sure if this is accurate, but saw this claim. Unfortunately, the mics for this model are like $50 on ebay so humm about all that... but very interested to see if this would help.

i’m not helping much with a clear complaint - because its not clear to me what is wrong - just that it should be better... but above gives me a few good things to try before tossing money at it which i’d like to avoid.

appreciate the help and thoughts... more to come. Cheers!!

 

[EL Duke-A]

Ran my phone direct through pre side of onkyo a7 (which i love) into power side of the system and played spotify on highest quality setting (i’ll call this phone direct). Then i flipped back and forth a bit. Phone direct from was better balanced and more controlled. I realize it could be the impact of the a7. Subtle but i did like phone direct better. Also found the pl II thx music listening mode best and the overall sound/experience pretty darn good.

i also swapped my subs to the outside of the front mains to get them further apart. Seemed to clean up the bass a bit in the room. Cleaner and tighter... but less boomy.

I use a bludento bluetooth receiver in another setup i have strictly for music and its amazing. $110 on amazon. I will try that in this system and if its killer, maybe get a 2nd one.

 

[whoaru99]

If you bought it 2nd hand I'd expect it's still using settings/tuning from the previous owner's setup/speakers/room.

Have you done any sort of reset and calibration on the Onkyo HT receiver?

 

[Duane]

You can always adjust the center channel to get what sounds best to you. There's no rule that it has to be the same level as the fronts.

Another thought is to configure your speaker setup to the phantom mode and then do some listening, especially with music in PLII..

 

[isotopesope]

ah ha! yeah thru the roku's analog out you're limited to whatever onboard DAC it has, which is probably crap. Or obviously crap. I was recently considering a bluetooth receiver for my 2 channel system and it really was coming down to the Audio Engine B1 or the BluDento BLT-1. My plan was to run it thru my Topping D30 DAC, bypassing the internal ones, but it is compelling seeing the BluDento has a 32-bit BurrBrown onboard DAC chip. The more expensive B1 has a 24 bit AKM4396 DAC. In all my research I discovered my oooold 1st gen Apple Airport Express's 1/8" jack also functions as a mini-toslink digital output!!! I thought it was just analog. So I have a mini-toslink adapter on it's way so I can use AirPlay to stream to it, instead of Bluetooth. Had that Airport express kicking around in a junk drawer for a good 12+ years!?

I agree there could be old calibrations in the Onkyo, throwing stuff a bit out of whack. You could reset it and manually measure the speaker distances to the Main Listening Position, but I would also suggest picking up a calibration mic. Audyssey is a powerful calibration tool. My Marantz AV7702mkII processor has Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and it's quite impressive honestly.

 

[isotopesope]

here's a weird coincidence... I took a peek at ebay and saw all the various Audyssey mics, but this one inexpensive light colored mic stuck out to me:
Audyssey Sound Calibration Microphone | eBay
then I checked my local craig's list for "Audyssey" and the one item that popped up was a sales ad for your exact reciever, showing a light colored Audyssey mic!
Onkyo TX-SR706 - electronics - by owner - sale (craigslist.org)

however, I'm sure any Audyssey mic will get the job done... but what are the chances that's the exact model of mic that came with your unit!?

 

[EL Duke-A]

If you bought it 2nd hand I'd expect it's still using settings/tuning from the previous owner's setup/speakers/room.

Have you done any sort of reset and calibration on the Onkyo HT receiver?

good callout... i have been through and played around with every setting (literally, everyone... not figuratively)

 

[EL Duke-A]

here's a weird coincidence... I took a peek at ebay and saw all the various Audyssey mics, but this one inexpensive light colored mic stuck out to me:
Audyssey Sound Calibration Microphone | eBay
then I checked my local craig's list for "Audyssey" and the one item that popped up was a sales ad for your exact reciever, showing a light colored Audyssey mic!
Onkyo TX-SR706 - electronics - by owner - sale (craigslist.org)

however, I'm sure any Audyssey mic will get the job done... but what are the chances that's the exact model of mic that came with your unit!?

dang - that is crazy. I will see if that seller is willing to mail it. Thanks!

interesting comments about the dac in the roku... does it actually have a dac in it..? It plugs into hdmi port... i go direct to the tv and picture is amazing. I then pipe audio to receiver vis optical.. when the video format includes dolby digital - its hit the receiver as DD... anywho... always assumed no dac in roku and just using one in receiver... or... now that i’m thinking about it... maybe the tv’s dac is in the mix...

 

[isotopesope]

If you have analog outs coming out of the Roku, there’s definitely some sort of digital to analog converter in it to make that happen. If your TV is outputting sound via a toslink optical cable to your receiver, it’s your receiver acting as the dac for the signal for TV and movies. but your receiver’s dac is unfortunately being bypassed by the Roku for the Spotify analog output.

hopefully you can score that inexpensive mic off eBay or convince that local seller to sell you his... that seems unlikely though.

 

[whoaru99]

good callout... i have been through and played around with every setting (literally, everyone... not figuratively)

I'm not sure that really answered my question whether you've done any sort of calibration, or reset to factory and built the config for your setup, but hopefully that means there's nothing glaringly out of whack.