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Best way to add a subwoofer without a sub out

chuckle490

New Member
Hi everyone, I recently pick us a pair of Infinty Primus 250 speakers at my local SA. After putting new tweeters and x overs in them they sound great! On some records though I feel like I'm missing just a bit of low end extension and I'm interested in adding a subwoofer to my setup.

I use a Yamaha RX-496 receiver and it does not have a subwoofer out. If I were to add a subwoofer using its speaker level input would that be detrimental to sq at all? Would I want to wire them to my b speaker channel
And leave my speakers wired up to the A channel? Or should I wire them to the same channel?

I appreciate any and all help!
 

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Either way works, I tend to use the B speaker terminals for sub because then if I want to turn the sub off for whatever reason I just hit a button.

A powered sub with speaker level inputs is perfect for this application. It won't significantly lower your perceived impedance at your receiver as the receiver is not powering the sub, it is simply providing a signal and the sub's plate amp is doing the amplification. One with an adjustable crossover and volume control is what you want.
 
Either way works, I tend to use the B speaker terminals for sub because then if I want to turn the sub off for whatever reason I just hit a button.

I see that often as the reason to use B speaker.

Have always been curious though, how many times do you actually turn off the sub once you have it dialed in?
 
Do you guys have any recommendations for my system? Should I get a 10 inch or 12 inch? Not looking to rattle my walls just want a bit more bass extension and a bit more impact on kick drums. Setup is usually in a small room but sometimes in a medium sized room.
 
Do you guys have any recommendations for my system? Should I get a 10 inch or 12 inch? Not looking to rattle my walls just want a bit more bass extension and a bit more impact on kick drums. Setup is usually in a small room but sometimes in a medium sized room.

There are lots of subs around. My recommendation is to get a sub with both line level and speaker level inputs. The idea here is to give you the maximum flexibility.

Today you want a sub for your two channel system, but in the future you might want to use that sub in a home theater system. That's where the line level inputs come into play.

Regards,
Jerry

PS: For new subs, you might check out the AK advertisers.
 
Do you guys have any recommendations for my system? Should I get a 10 inch or 12 inch? Not looking to rattle my walls just want a bit more bass extension and a bit more impact on kick drums. Setup is usually in a small room but sometimes in a medium sized room.

For your situation, a 10 inch is preferable. Even an 8" is capable of surprisingly low bass in a small to medium room. The conventional wisdom is, the smaller the woofer the greater control over the sound - over 12" bass gets "floppy". If all you want is big boom boom bass, bigger is better. Otherwise, go small. Look at the number of newer speaker designs that use a pair of smaller bass drivers rather than one big one.

As always, just my opinion, YMMV.

Cheers,
Larry B.
 
Also if you post a location, someone may have something suitable. I have a small one up on BT right now.
 
For your needs, a 10" subwoofer is more than sufficient. Run the speaker outs from your Yamaha into the sub, and the speaker outs from the sub to your Left/Right speakers, and you're all set. Or, as you surmised, you can run the B Speaker outputs to the sub, as well and then just dial in the crossover on the sub to your tastes.
 
For your situation, a 10 inch is preferable. Even an 8" is capable of surprisingly low bass in a small to medium room. The conventional wisdom is, the smaller the woofer the greater control over the sound - over 12" bass gets "floppy". If all you want is big boom boom bass, bigger is better. Otherwise, go small. Look at the number of newer speaker designs that use a pair of smaller bass drivers rather than one big one.

As always, just my opinion, YMMV.

Cheers,
Larry B.
Excellent went ahead and ordered a 10 inch subwoofer.

For your needs, a 10" subwoofer is more than sufficient. Run the speaker outs from your Yamaha into the sub, and the speaker outs from the sub to your Left/Right speakers, and you're all set. Or, as you surmised, you can run the B Speaker outputs to the sub, as well and then just dial in the crossover on the sub to your tastes.
Which method would be ideal? Any degradation of sound quality using the sub's speaker line outs?
 
Which method would be ideal? Any degradation of sound quality using the sub's speaker line outs?

Depends on what you want to do and what features the specific sub has and how all that may play in with your main speakers.

Some speaker outs are simply full range pass through, others have a high pass filter. If the former, debating possible degradation is like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. If the latter, the sound almost certainly will be different. Better or worse also depends. Ain't audio fun? :)
 
So far my preference is to run the main speakers full range and then I'll adjust the sub to work with the natural "roll off" of the given speakers in use.
High passing the main speakers (to me) seems to leave more of a "gap/hole/dip" to my ears.
Some subs have a selectable slope control to help with that,but IME it's just easier to do it the way mentioned ^^^^ above ^^^^.

I also prefer subs with adjustable phase controls,especially when placement is problematic (ie: less than ideal).
That has helped me tremendously in getting the sub to "blend in" with the main speakers.

And so far for me in a smaller room,a single 8" to 10" sub has been more than adequate.

JM2¢ ~ HTH

Bret p.
 
Much, IMO, problem with high pass is that the sub, if it even has one, is fixed value. Whether or not that plays well with the speakers is a big if. Some of them are pretty high...80Hz or more. 80Hz isn't too bad but much higher than that I feel you leave something on the table unless the main speakers are very small/incapable of any material bass output.
 
Hmmm ... the original intent of a subwoofer was to faithfully reproduce the lowest two octaves in the range of human hearing. So, any cube with a woofer on one side with a 3dB down point of 35 Hz doesn't qualify. This is one of the reasons that some audiophiles turn their nose up at them.

OTOH, choosing a subwoofer that can play flat to below 20 Hz will perfectly complement a pair of speakers that on their own cannot. Of course, it takes a considerable amount of effort to integrate the output of the subwoofer with the speakers in such a way that the transition between them is seamless. In addition, we want seamless at the listening spot and not the hall bathroom.

As for "conventional wisdom" in regards to the size of the cone itself, far more of the "sloppy" can be contributed to poor execution of the above. Physics governs all of it.

So - do you want a subwoofer or do you want the lowest two octaves reproduced faithfully and seamlessly at the listening spot? Choose carefully before buying a cube with a woofer on one side.
 
REL actually prefers the speaker level input (from your amp) to the line level preamp outputs through RCAs. but if you prefer the rca ouputs and don't have a subwoofer out (bass management) then you need two rca splitters, one male to two female each. then both long interconnect to the sub which usually has stereo in where it is mixed safely to mono. then it's just a matter of adjusting the sub to
 
There are two ways to do this... Both are fairly messy:

Option A:

To get your desired result you can use your tape monitor out going into the line in on your speaker. In this case you're getting full volume out of the tape out, and full frequency. The problem runs into whether you have a crossover and line level on your sub woofer. Most sub in a box powered subs will have both of these. The real perceived problem here is that you run into an issue of having both an amp volume and a line level volume on your sub. This becomes problematic as every time you adjust the volume on your receiver your sub woofer will be out of balance with the rest of your system. This is the most dirty way to achieve what you want.

Option B:

The other way, which is neater, is to run your speaker terminals to your speaker level input on your sub woofer and run the speakers from the speaker output on your sub woofer. This is the preferred method. As your using both amps your sub amp will handle the frequency your standard receiver is not capable of handling by itself. The amps act in tandem as a biamp setup. The sub woofer has an active crossover and you set the crossover at a point where it handles only the lower frequencies. You set the crossover frequency once and the amp resolves the volume, you also get bass and treble adjustments from the amplifier.

speaker_level_inputs-2.jpg

More technical guff:

Contrary to popular belief its not hard at all to tune a crossover by ear, its quite easy really. You just have to adjust the crossover until one set of speakers doesn't overpower the other. If you can't spot this point then find someone suitable who can. Contrary to any of the poo pooing above, this is also a perfectly good way to compliment your speakers in components. In my case, my Rogers export monitors handle 40hz - 25kHz, and my Onkyo SKW-320 handles 25hz to 200hz. The key here is to set the crossover at somewhere around 40hz, this way I get the compliment of a sub that can handle 25hz to 40hz, and a driver/tweeter system that can handle 40hz to 25khz.

In this way both amps and speakers compliment each other. This is actually the traditional way of doing things. Most traditionally you would have 3 separate speakers in separate boxes. You would have a bass driver, a mid driver and a horn (tweeter.) Since the middle part of the last century its become common to combine all three in a floor standing speaker box. This is more so about convenience and ease of tuning components. It's much more difficult when you have to consider the placement and tuning of all three speakers individually, but individual components placed correctly will still provide a superior result.

Here's a suitable example of 1960s era Fisher 3 way component system, of course you're not building anything as shmansy-fancy as that what you will be building is a two way or three way system with a separated sub woofer. Your horn (if you have one) will be in your speaker cabinet or on the speaker itself if its coaxial.

X1964_Fisher_Speakers.jpg
 
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I see. We have open office layout and I wouldn't dream of using anything other than ear buds or closed headphones, let alone a sub, at work.

Same here, but i'm often there with just one or two like minded cow orkers on weekends, and I had the sub already with no other use for it.
 
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