Big time CL score!! ESS Transtatic I & Phase Linear
- Thread starter vtomike
- Start date
). Get 'em fully working and enjoy your good fortune! 
audiomagnate
Addicted Member
If I were going to design the ultimate speaker, it would look pretty close to those. Fan-freakin-tastic score. You have the makings of a killer two channel and 4.0 Dolby Digital sytsem for movies no sub or center required. I am so jealous. I bet they made very few of those. I'm a big RTR fan and I've never knew they existed. Are there any technical details available, i.e where and how those panels are crossed over etc? Close ups of the crossover would be cool. If you need to sell that second pair...
nexus
Super Member
nice find!! somebody sure had the bucks back then to buy a QUAD system with those speakers and phase linear amps!! i lusted after a pair of these for many many years, but could never find them. a testament to how advanced these were is that owners generally kept them for a lifetime! now most of the people who could afford them in 1971 are dead and their inheritors just don't know what they have.
my very first experience with hi-fi sound was listening to those and the translinear 2s. man was i blown away hearing ELP's trilogy album with the big phase linear amp driving them!
i also favored the translinear 2 as i feel it had better power handling since the B1044 woofer was not being pushed so low in a transmission line that was tuned below resonance. some say that the transtatic speakers tend to get shouty if you play them loud and the woofer buzzing was a problem for dealers (as a trusted local salesman of these back in the day told me).
loved those RTR panels! i always wished that ess would have continued with the B1044 and the t-lines and refined them when they introduced the heil, instead of the crappy ported box with a cardboard tube for a vent...
the later transmission line with the wimpy 10" paper cone did not do justice to the amt and did not have the bass extension or power of these earlier models.
over these many years i have been able to build myself the speakers that give me the power and extension of those early ess, with more modern and reliable drivers (and without the need for such complicated cabinets!). but i always wished i could find a junked pair to re-engineer..
you should sell the cabs of the other pair with the woofer intact because somebody just might like to experiment with them (those t-lines are so hard to construct and tune properly!). i could see removing the top panel and mounting an amt there with a re-designed xover....!!
p.s.: isn't ESS long out of business? only the amt's are just made in germany?
my very first experience with hi-fi sound was listening to those and the translinear 2s. man was i blown away hearing ELP's trilogy album with the big phase linear amp driving them!
i also favored the translinear 2 as i feel it had better power handling since the B1044 woofer was not being pushed so low in a transmission line that was tuned below resonance. some say that the transtatic speakers tend to get shouty if you play them loud and the woofer buzzing was a problem for dealers (as a trusted local salesman of these back in the day told me).
loved those RTR panels! i always wished that ess would have continued with the B1044 and the t-lines and refined them when they introduced the heil, instead of the crappy ported box with a cardboard tube for a vent...
the later transmission line with the wimpy 10" paper cone did not do justice to the amt and did not have the bass extension or power of these earlier models.
over these many years i have been able to build myself the speakers that give me the power and extension of those early ess, with more modern and reliable drivers (and without the need for such complicated cabinets!). but i always wished i could find a junked pair to re-engineer..
you should sell the cabs of the other pair with the woofer intact because somebody just might like to experiment with them (those t-lines are so hard to construct and tune properly!). i could see removing the top panel and mounting an amt there with a re-designed xover....!!
p.s.: isn't ESS long out of business? only the amt's are just made in germany?
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I think you might have your models mixed up.
From what I have heard-it's the Transar, with it's unique low frequency driver and Heils for the high end, not a new RTR model.
By the way, nice score!:thmbsp:
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vtomike
Super Member
I talked to a guy on ebay that was selling NOS RTR stats. He told me the guy from ESS was trying to buy all the drivers he had and was going to reproduce the Transtatics. He also said the guy was looking to buy an original pair to copy.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
Sounds like Rick C, as he was also looking for original Transars.
Both nice speakers, but IMHO he is really missing the boat by not making a modern AMT3. Much easier to build then either the Transtatic, or Transar-not many speakers can compete with the shear dynamics, imaging and correct tonality of a AMT3, especially when you add to the mix modern woofers and mid-woofers, and low induction coils and modern tight tolerence poly caps.
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nexus
Super Member
reproducing the transtatic today would be costly and hard work if you were going into producing them commercially, and there would not be much of a market considering how cheap they sell nowadays.
now a better AMT system would be something great. a beefy woofer in a well designed t-line with a really excellent midrange..maybe a planar driver like vmps uses, handing off to the heil...how about an array of heils? i once saw a guy's home-built speaker with four of them stacked. there are a lot of possibilities..
those early ess really stood the test of time and it has only been in the last 10 years that they could really be matched or surpassed for the money. of course $1250 a pair in '71 would be like $9000 or more now.
the kef woofer was great and optimized for transmission lines but for the large peaks it had in it's response and so much better woofers are available now and you can get a great tight non-resonant bass with equalized large box sealed alignments like i use now...those t-lines are so hard to construct and tune.
20 years ago i would have loved to get a hold of the trans series and restore or re-engineer them, but now that my health is bad it's all moot.
now a better AMT system would be something great. a beefy woofer in a well designed t-line with a really excellent midrange..maybe a planar driver like vmps uses, handing off to the heil...how about an array of heils? i once saw a guy's home-built speaker with four of them stacked. there are a lot of possibilities..
those early ess really stood the test of time and it has only been in the last 10 years that they could really be matched or surpassed for the money. of course $1250 a pair in '71 would be like $9000 or more now.
the kef woofer was great and optimized for transmission lines but for the large peaks it had in it's response and so much better woofers are available now and you can get a great tight non-resonant bass with equalized large box sealed alignments like i use now...those t-lines are so hard to construct and tune.
20 years ago i would have loved to get a hold of the trans series and restore or re-engineer them, but now that my health is bad it's all moot.
I totally agree-along with the Transar.
A properly working, and driven AMT3 easily surpasses most speakers in dynamics, imaging, tonality amd definition without being clinical, but musical.
In working with my "Super AMT3's"-I am trying to take advantage of the better woofers/mid woofers available.
Working with the constraints of the O.E. AMT3 cabinet has been one of the difficult parts. You also need both a clean yet efficient woofer with superior transient response, and low distortion to work well. Same goes for the mid woofer.
Putting a "fat" and slow SEAS etc doesn't cut it with a Great Heil speaker
From my research-the Dayton ST255-8, and Eminence Alpha 6A seem to be the best drivers I have found so far, that work with the mid sealed tube, and the overall 72 liter enclosure of the AMT3. And of course also work well with the basic AMT3 crossover, with a few minor adjustments.
I have to say, the early results are ear and jaw dropping.
It's amazing what a clean, fast low distortion bass driver, and mid woofer does for the AMT3's. Pretty much the key to the AMT3 puzzle, fully unlocking all it's potential.
As they stand-these speakers could (and should) be the flagship of the current ESS lineup-and would easily, and favorably compete with any speaker out their-even to those with preconceived notions about Heil speakers.
A 3 way design is the key-and truly compatible drivers to compliment the Great Heil-along with a low resistance, efficient crossover.
Ricky is a nice guy-but I really don't understand his thinking-the key to his "New" ESS Labs is staring him right in the face-and it's ain't the Transtatic or Transar .
nexus
Super Member
as they said "sound as clear as light".
i was disappointed when they tried to cross the heil too low when the transtatic had a higher xover at about 1250 hz. therefore they needed a good midrange and the little kef driver in a short t-line worked. add a more modern mid and a heil and you would have a great speaker!
it might be possible to mount it inside the cab with the back wave deflected like the RTR units with a little cutting to the baffle board. wish i had the the parts and stamina to modify the old transstatic..
i was disappointed when they tried to cross the heil too low when the transtatic had a higher xover at about 1250 hz. therefore they needed a good midrange and the little kef driver in a short t-line worked. add a more modern mid and a heil and you would have a great speaker!
it might be possible to mount it inside the cab with the back wave deflected like the RTR units with a little cutting to the baffle board. wish i had the the parts and stamina to modify the old transstatic..
The AMT3's use a different approach with their twin 10" woofers. This gives them the ability to not only play with bass speed, but gives them enough bass output at higher volume levels.
They could have even gone 8", but you would have lost some extension.
Even with the Dayton's and 2 twin 3" ports in the rear (plugging the small o.e. front unit-you get useful output down to around 32HZ at decent input levels and not reach X-max.
Although like the stock woofers there is useful output down to 30 hz or so at more moderate levels-without reaching x-max.
In this configuration, with the twin rear ports, you bass output from 42 hz (port tuning) up to 700 hz (crossover point) sits @ 94.8-which matches up perfectly with the Heil, and Alpha 6A mid bass driver.
This level match, among a few other reasons, (clean output-smooth response free of peaks and valleys from the supporting drivers) is why the "Supers" sound so good-and easily out perform the stock AMT3 set up.
The only draw back with this setup is you have to be careful about driving the Dayton's past x-max in this configuration-as past 32hz (@150wpc-average) the excursion rises rapidly.
This, however, is a good trade off for the clean, fast, and musical bass the Dayton's provide.
Sorry to ramble on your thread!:sigh:
By the way, I would highly recommend recapping your crossovers, and checking all the connections.
Should be interesting to see what RickyC does with those panels-Transtatic and Transars- and hopefully AMT3's!:thmbsp:
They could have even gone 8", but you would have lost some extension.
Even with the Dayton's and 2 twin 3" ports in the rear (plugging the small o.e. front unit-you get useful output down to around 32HZ at decent input levels and not reach X-max.
Although like the stock woofers there is useful output down to 30 hz or so at more moderate levels-without reaching x-max.
In this configuration, with the twin rear ports, you bass output from 42 hz (port tuning) up to 700 hz (crossover point) sits @ 94.8-which matches up perfectly with the Heil, and Alpha 6A mid bass driver.
This level match, among a few other reasons, (clean output-smooth response free of peaks and valleys from the supporting drivers) is why the "Supers" sound so good-and easily out perform the stock AMT3 set up.
The only draw back with this setup is you have to be careful about driving the Dayton's past x-max in this configuration-as past 32hz (@150wpc-average) the excursion rises rapidly.
This, however, is a good trade off for the clean, fast, and musical bass the Dayton's provide.
Sorry to ramble on your thread!:sigh:
By the way, I would highly recommend recapping your crossovers, and checking all the connections.
Should be interesting to see what RickyC does with those panels-Transtatic and Transars- and hopefully AMT3's!:thmbsp:
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nexus
Super Member
i don't like to resort to an added sub with large speakers, so extension and power as well as realistic 'tunefull' bass is paramount. imho extension to 20 hz is requisite in a speaker that claims 'full range'. those transstatic 1's easily reached down that far, just don't expect them to match a big ported sub.
my fantasy speaker is a transstatic - heil hybrid with perhaps planar mids filling in for the rtr panels and the amt somehow mouinted in the cab firing at the backboard. one could also just use good midrange cone drivers open baffle there also. the little kef was great back then but is no match for today's drivers, so i'd remove it for this experiment.
btw, i love those rtr esl panels, but i would be worried about replacements. music has much more dynamic range than when those were made and so it would be easier to over drive them today than back in '71. records were compressed to prevent the cutters from blowing and that worked in favor of the speakers of the day
my fantasy speaker is a transstatic - heil hybrid with perhaps planar mids filling in for the rtr panels and the amt somehow mouinted in the cab firing at the backboard. one could also just use good midrange cone drivers open baffle there also. the little kef was great back then but is no match for today's drivers, so i'd remove it for this experiment.
btw, i love those rtr esl panels, but i would be worried about replacements. music has much more dynamic range than when those were made and so it would be easier to over drive them today than back in '71. records were compressed to prevent the cutters from blowing and that worked in favor of the speakers of the day
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Blahblahblah, we have really derailed the OP's post.
That said, I'll pile on.
I recently got a set of AMT1b bookshelf speakers. Nexus and Automojo, what would you recomend for replacement that is fast and deep?
That's ok-it happens with my ESS/Heil posts all the time!:thmbsp:
Are you talking woofer? The O.E. Bextrine woofer is good down to 40 hz w/passive which should be fine.
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