• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Bokeh! show it off

Okay. Do you see the difference between the day lilies and the other shots?

The lilies work for me, very nice by the way, because although the foremost petals are soft they do not distract the viewer's eye. It actually draws it into the shot. Your other shots have lots of white in them. The eye is drawn to light and bright colors. Dark recedes and light, bright colors pop giving the brain an illusion of 3D. The brain likes to work subconsciously.

However.

With the white out of focus flowers in the foreground (which are larger than the subject/ intended focal point) and also in the background my eye/brain cries. Subconsciously I can't figure out what is the foreground vs background. As my pot addled brain tries to figure this out the eye misses your intended focal point. There is not a natural flow through the shot. The eye races around instead of getting drawn in. All the while the brain tries unsuccessfully to pull the white from the background into the foreground. And then I get a self induced brain cloud.

For these two shots an exploration into vignettes might suit your intentions?

Of course this is just my opinion. And I never even heard the word Bokeh till you posted.

I get the difference.

Thanks!
the day lily shot is a later shot in that vein of experimentation, well most of my floral shots are my experimentation with depth of field.
the subtle softness of the foreground petals acts as an in for the eye, drawing it into the focal point of the rest of the flower.
the background is out of focus, with enough detail to give it texture, but not enough to make it distracting.
it is one of my favorite shots of flowers I have taken.

My girlfriend agrees that the crocus shot is very distracting, as the blurry foreground keeps drawing her minds interest, thus detracting from the intended point of focus.
I feel it too when i try to focus on the focal point, my eyes keep being drawn to the bottom of the image to the big white blurry blobs.
for the daisy shot, you can make yourself badtrip trying to find the focus. its as if your mind gets too confused and your eyes just slide off the image.
I wonder if any photographer has ever done a show where the intent is a bunch of shots you cannot look at, because your mind just slides your eyes off it due to distraction.

I understand how the point of focus being in a middle ground can be difficult to actually focus on, when its surrounded by distracting blurry stuff.
 
Last edited:
Here's one from my other thread that has some out of focus material in the foreground. I don't think it looks that bad. There is also some nice little circles in the background.

attachment.php
 
Yellow Globe Flower shot with a Nikon D60, 18-55VR lens, 1/125 exposure, f/5.6 at 52mm.


DSC_0007.jpg
 
Yellow Globe Flower shot with a Nikon D60, 18-55VR lens, 1/125 exposure, f/5.6 at 52mm.


DSC_0007.jpg

I really like that one Broonsbane, great light, composition, and enough detail in the background to keep the mind interested for a moment or two before it gets drawn right back to the flower.
 
and this is why discussion of Bokeh have been going on in my world for the last 9 years.

As to examples I guess I can go look. I do not put my film work on the putter since I shoot slides as the final product. But let me see what I can find.

Very good Bokeh as it gives the subject a 3d effect either a Canon G3 or S3-IS digital

spider.jpg


Good bokeh but a busy background with lines that distract from the subject Canon G3 or S3-IS digital

trashmantis.jpg



More good undefined bokeh allowing the suject to come forward out of the backgroundCanon G3 or S3-IS digital


Ftyardflower014.jpg


And here is a sample of using reflections or circular highlites to advantage. Where the reflections of the markee lights seam to surround the girl in the ticket booth. Shot with a 1956 Rollieflex 3.5E scanned from Neopan 400

(by the way the person in the background is our worlds famous Transvestite Mayor Stu who happens to own the theator)

Rolleiflex3thegirlintheboothweb.jpg


And one with only a slight softening of the back ground canon S3-IS

Ftyard061409012.jpg


Now chew away.
 
*JUST* got a brand spanking new Canon EOS Rebel T1i delivered to my door... so took a few minutes to fiddle with it... this is just a quick snap... does this count as Bokeh?

Audio036.png


EDIT: probably falls far afield of the goal... Now that I know what the goal is... I'll play around with the new camera and see if I can come up with something decent. But, I also don't want to get wrapped around the axle on what bokeh is or isn't ... lest I lose sight of the big picture :D
 
Last edited:
Here are a couple (I took them with a Canon 20D, I think they were both with 100-400mm lens, I do not have the other exif info (at least without having to track down the original photos from my hard drive)


original.jpg


original.jpg
 
Here are a couple (I took them with a Canon 20D, I think they were both with 100-400mm lens, I do not have the other exif info (at least without having to track down the original photos from my hard drive)


original.jpg

wow, I really like this one. great position and frame.

the only thing I find the shot looks generally a bit purple....a slight adjustment of the color curves would probably fix that up....unless of course you intended that tone.
 
*JUST* got a brand spanking new Canon EOS Rebel T1i delivered to my door... so took a few minutes to fiddle with it... this is just a quick snap... does this count as Bokeh?

Audio036.png


EDIT: probably falls far afield of the goal... Now that I know what the goal is... I'll play around with the new camera and see if I can come up with something decent. But, I also don't want to get wrapped around the axle on what bokeh is or isn't ... lest I lose sight of the big picture :D

you have blur in the background making it softer, so yeah, it is bokeh.
if you want a few of those circular highlights, you may have to work at it.

cool camera you got there, how is the video?
I'm hoping to have the scratch next year to get the new 7D.
 
circular high lights in a conventional lens is subject to how many blades the aperture has the closer to round when stopped down the smoother the Bokeh is generally. On reason old Leica screw mount lenses have such smooth beautiful Bokeh is they had apertures with a LOT of blades.

In Canon FD between the different generations of the lenses apertures were changed in some cases making the older lens have a slightly better Look. The early 135mm f3.5 with the simple 4 in 3 groups formula and the 8 blade aperture is a better portrait lens then the later version with 4 in 4 groups and 6 blades.
 
As I understand it, 'bokeh' describes the rendering of the out of focus areas of an image.

You use a shallow depth of field to achieve bokeh. The terms are related but to say they are the same is like claiming a camera is the same as a photo. You use a camera to take a photo, but they are not the same thing.

The term bokeh in itself is neutral. There is good bokeh and bad bokeh, and as always when things are judged to be good or bad, the process is inherently subjective. However, there are also some objective criteria that define what is commonly considered to be good bokeh. Like Ken Rockwell or not, his article (to which 2long4you posted a link), gives the best explanation of these criteria I have found so far. The diagrams he uses to demonstrate the different rendering of highlights happen to be round, but the same applies to differently shaped highlights. What matters is the outline of these highlights - emphasized, well defined, or blurry. I think the reason so many photographers have problems wrapping their head around the concept of bokeh is that they are obsessed with sharpness, but in the bokeh (out of focus) areas of your image, you actually want blurry!

But again, despite the effort to make the whole bokeh thing transparent and objective, it is inherently subjective. A Toyata Camry is generally considered to be a well designed car, and judging from the sales figures a lot of people seem to agree. Yet, that doesn't stop you as an individual from considering a Camry to be ugliest car on the planet, while happily driving around in your Hummer. In the same way you might prefer well defined highlights in the out of focus areas of an image, while the rest of the world thinks the area should be as smooth and creamy as possible.

Last but not least, if you want to critically judge the ability of a lens to provide good bokeh, you want to include some bright highlights in the out of focus areas of an image so that you can examine these to see how they show up. On the other hand, if you want to take a shot with good bokeh (especially with a lens that doesn't usually do a good job at this) you want to avoid bright highlights in the out of focus areas of your image. If there are no such highlights, the out of focus area will look smooth and creamy (good bokeh!), regardless of the capabilities of your lens.

AT-Signet-1.jpg


ADC-Series1-1.jpg


In my humble opinion these two images show excellent bokeh - but I made life easy for the lens I used, because there are no bright highlights in the out of focus areas.

Last but not least, out of focus areas in the foreground in general are considered a big no-no, but I fully agree that they can be used very effectively to draw the viewers eye into the frame. However, whenever you post examples of this technique in photography forums, you will find some people who vehemently object.

Play.jpg
 
Last edited:
I am not sure that the following shots qualify, but I was wondering if a blurred, but not totally out of focus background shot fits into the bokeh conversation? A few examples of what I am referring to are below:

original.jpg


large.jpg


original.jpg
 
Admittedly I have zero experience with macro.

So what's the story with the last butterfly shot? There is no way that was random with the stripped shirt. Pretty incredible shot.
 
you have blur in the background making it softer, so yeah, it is bokeh.
if you want a few of those circular highlights, you may have to work at it.

cool camera you got there, how is the video?
I'm hoping to have the scratch next year to get the new 7D.

I will keep playing around and see if I can get the circular highlight stuff going on some shots... I am really digging the camera. It's been years and years since I shot with a "real" SLR. Haven't played with the video yet but now that I have a 16G card, it is time... :D
 
@fmueller
Is that last picture (the one with the pressed play buttom) Tilt-shift?

I have played with it a few times just for fun

http://tiltshiftmaker.com/

would this be Bokeh even though the subject is the entire picture ?
 

Attachments

  • Rapsfield.jpg
    Rapsfield.jpg
    137.5 KB · Views: 37
Admittedly I have zero experience with macro.

So what's the story with the last butterfly shot? There is no way that was random with the stripped shirt. Pretty incredible shot.
I took that shot at a butterfly exhibit. I was walking around and noticed that this butterfly had actually landed in this child's hand. I asked her mom if I could take a picture and noticed that the shirt matched the stripes, so I got that in the shot, too. I was lucky that the butterfly had its wings spread at the time.
 
Back
Top Bottom