Broadcast turntables?

[Taketheflame]

Hey all,

Yet another subject I'm looking to learn more about, lol.

Through some other threads I've viewed, posted in, or even started, I've heard the term "broadcast table" used. I get the impression that this means models which were aimed at professionals (radio DJs back when it was mostly vinyl played over the air, and other commercial use), but am hoping someone can clarify?

I've heard certain idler drive models referred to as broadcast tables (such as the Garrard 401), but also the same term used for direct-drive models like the Technics SP-10 and Sony PS-2251. Were there any belt drive models that were considered "broadcast" decks?

I also get the impression that some (many?) of these decks were sold either without a plinth, or could be purchased with an optional factory plinth in some cases. Is this true? What about the armboards?

Just trying to get a better idea of if this is an accurate description for a broadcast deck, and how they fare in the turntable world versus a well-regarded deck aimed more at the general public? (think an upper-midrange or higher quartz lock DD deck, or a good suspended belt-drive deck that allows for easy arm swaps or maintenance). Were broadcast decks considered reference level?

 

[MisterDK]

Broadcast tables generally needed three things to qualify as broadcast tables.

1) BIG TORQUE for instantly getting up to speed
2) “bulletproof” durability for running 24/7 without breakdown from wear - or DJ abuse
3) no fuss simplicity - nothing for DJ’s to mess around with..

While some consumer decks did also make good broadcast tables (like Technics SP10), most consumer decks would not hold up to 24/7 use for very long, nor did they have the big torque needed.
As far as “reference level” - it completely depends on your point of reference and who you ask. Some folks have made audiophile tables from broadcast tables - but getting the tough, old idler tables quiet and rumble free, may not be easy. If you start with something like a Technics SP10, you can much more easily have a reference table without as much work.
Most belt tables are consumer grade and won’t have the instant torque for broadcast use; some are better than others in that respect. Belt tables generally are quiet though.

 

[BillWojo]

Do a search on here for Russco Studio Pro, it's an idler drive TT made just for the broadcast market. Very heavy and high quality build level, massive motor and a 3/4" platter spindle shaft make these things almost indestructible. Several of us have built these into very nice audiophile grade TT capable of very high quality playback.
With care taken during the rebuilding process these tables can be made very quiet, especially if mated to a high mass plinth.

BillWojo

 

[MisterDK]

Do a search on here for Russco Studio Pro, it's an idler drive TT made just for the broadcast market. Very heavy and high quality build level, massive motor and a 3/4" platter spindle shaft make these things almost indestructible. Several of us have built these into very nice audiophile grade TT capable of very high quality playback.
With care taken during the rebuilding process these tables can be made very quiet, especially if mated to a high mass plinth.

BillWojo

Hey Bill - questions about the Studio Pro and also the similar looking QRK’s and Micro-Traks - are certain vintages better than others with respect to build quality, motors used, etc..?

 

[Semanon]

Broadcast turntables have many features that are not particularly important for home turntables, like fast start, 24x7 use, massive platters, use by non-audiophiles, built in phono preamps, heavy tracking. Having used them in a earlier life, I would not own most of them for home use. That said, there are professional turntables from Technics, Denon, and others that are excellent and used in modern professional environments, but they are not slammed around like when the turntable was in constant use. Vinyl Engine is a good place to research some of these.

 

[stratokaster]

The main features of broadcast turntables are their durability and repairability. If your wimpy consumer deck goes "oops", it would ruin your day and nothing more. If a studio turntable goes "oops" on air, it would be a potentially embarrassing incident. So they are really built to withstand broadcast use and abuse by DJs who are often not the sharpest tools in the shed.

Regarding the performance, old broadcast idlers are pretty awful by audiophile standards. Keep in mind that radio stations typically had dedicated technicians who serviced them regularly. They were also typically screwed into heavy broadcast desks, usually made of sand-filled steel pipes and sometimes bolted to concrete floors. Such a setup would be wildly impractical for home use, but without all that mass broadcast idlers can rumble like a freight train.

When Technics SP10 mk2 came along in 1975, it was simply the best turntable in the world in terms of measured performance. It was so much better than other broadcast turntables that BBC instantly became Technics' largest customer and junked their entire fleet of idler drive turntables practically overnight. It took EMT four years to respond, and their flagship direct drive deck (EMT 950) was so expensive that BBC only bought a handful of them. They were too precious for on-air use, so they were mostly relegated to phono libraries, dubbing theaters, transfer desks etc. And the smaller EMT 938 was still more expensive than the Technics but actually performed worse in terms of measurements, so it was not very popular with broadcasters. That's why on any given day you're likely to find ten SP10s and zero direct drive EMTs for sale.

So yes, something like an SP10 mk2 would be a reference class turntable even today. An old Gates or Russco? Not so much. And the SP10 really was a broadcast-first deck because the idea of paying $650 (approximately $3400 in today's money) for a bare motor unit was considered absolutely outrageous in 1976.

Regarding broadcast belt drive turntables, there were precious few of them. I actually asked the same question in a different forum recently, and it seems that there were only Sony TTS-3000 (heavily used by NRK in Norway), EMT 928 (Thorens TD125 in disguise, but not really designed for on-air use) and some Fairchild models.

 

[Taketheflame]

Thanks everyone!

@stratokaster - Now I'm curious. Did the introduction of the SP-10 and it's rapid adoption by the BBC help fuel the anti-direct drive turntable stuff that I've read was rather prevalent in the British hi-fi press in the 1970s?

Looks like many of the brands mentioned in this thread (other than EMT) were American companies, but what about British companies? Surely, the new (at the time) direct drives must have been seen as a major threat to the business of companies who stuck to idler or belt drive designs when they took over for radio use?

 

[Taketheflame]

Broadcast turntables have many features that are not particularly important for home turntables, like fast start, 24x7 use, massive platters, use by non-audiophiles, built in phono preamps, heavy tracking. Having used them in a earlier life, I would not own most of them for home use. That said, there are professional turntables from Technics, Denon, and others that are excellent and used in modern professional environments, but they are not slammed around like when the turntable was in constant use. Vinyl Engine is a good place to research some of these.

My interest is more so in direct drive than idler drive decks, in part due to the whole massive plinth thing that is ideal for getting the most out of an idler (though I'd never rule out a deck due to drive type alone).

 

[mr_petit]

Surely, the new (at the time) direct drives must have been seen as a major threat to the business of companies who stuck to idler or belt drive designs when they took over for radio use?

Production of the Garrard 401 stopped afaik in 1976 or '77 (it was quite old by then already), so one year after the sp-10mk2 came to market, and I believe and there never was a successor to the 401.
That answers your question

BTW one other feature a broadcast turntable should have (and not metioned here) is a brake. You want it to start fast but also stop fast. Some DD's are also really good at that.

And while not really designed for that, I think the sl-1200 (mk2) can also be considered a broadcast turntable (besides a dj table). Lots and lots and lots of radio stations used them. Easy bulletproof operation, good isolation to vibrations, and the arm is already included.

 

[belyin]

And while not really designed for that, I think the sl-1200 (mk2) can also be considered a broadcast turntable (besides a dj table). Lots and lots and lots of radio stations used them. Easy bulletproof operation, good isolation to vibrations, and the arm is already included.

The SL-1200 has been the only practical solution for stations that still present vinyl (mostly community and college stations) for the past 35 years or so as they were the only professional decks available since Technics suspended the SP series. My local community station has three in their broadcast studio, and the local college station uses them too.

 

[W9TR]

When I worked for Harris/Gates we had a big idler TT. The introduction of the Technics SP-10 killed sales completely and we discontinued it shortly after the SP-10 took over. The SP-10 was just so much better.

 

[Taketheflame]

So I guess another question of mine in all this: How do upper range consumer DD models compare to broadcast DD models in general use performance, and where is the line drawn on between the two?

Does a high end model aimed at consumer use with broadcast deck-like features (high build quality, dedicated arm board/easy to change arms, a brake, etc.) make it a broadcast deck, or does it need to be sold as an individual drive unit to make the cut?

Makes sense about the SL-1200 being the practical choice in professional use these days.

 

[oldvinyldude]

No clear line can be drawn.

A consumer R2R deck could be used in a pro environment, and a Pro machine could be part of a consumer setup. The consumer machine will be more likely to develop problems over time, in a Pro environment, or lack features expected by Pro users.

A consumer amp could be used in a pro environment, and a Pro amp could be used in a consumer setup. The consumer machine will be more likely to develop problems over time, in a Pro environment, or lack features expected by Pro users.

 

[MisterDK]

So I guess another question of mine in all this: How do upper range consumer DD models compare to broadcast DD models in general use performance, and where is the line drawn on between the two?

Does a high end model aimed at consumer use with broadcast deck-like features (high build quality, dedicated arm board/easy to change arms, a brake, etc.) make it a broadcast deck, or does it need to be sold as an individual drive unit to make the cut?

Makes sense about the SL-1200 being the practical choice in professional use these days.

I wonder that as well. Technics made other DD motor drives which I assume are “lesser” torque or cost than the SP-10’s. How good were they, in comparison?
Or for that matter, how well did those from Sony, Denon, JVC, etc. compare to the SP-10’s?

 

[Semanon]

I think @oldvinyldude said it well: there is no bright line.

• For sound quality, use either in either location
• For durability, don't use a consumer TT in a professional environment and expect it to last
• For features, having pro features in a home machine won't hurt, but are not necessary. Having only consumer features in a professional environment is probably be a no-go

The Technics SL-1200 is one of those rare TTs that has it all - price, features, durability, SQ, build quality.

To get back to the OP:

Just trying to get a better idea of if this is an accurate description for a broadcast deck, and how they fare in the turntable world versus a well-regarded deck aimed more at the general public?

True broadcast TTs are all going to be vintage. New, professional TTs are going to be steered towards DJs, and because of their durability and features will be applicable to those broadcast markets that still spin vinyl, or they will have USB connections (so the vinyl only needs to be spun once).

 

[stratokaster]

For features, having pro features in a home machine won't hurt, but are not necessary.

I thought the brake in the SP10 was unnecessary, however it turned out to be extremely handy when aligning the cartridge etc. I don't think I will go back to a turntable without decent brakes.

 

[Westy56]

1) BIG TORQUE for instantly getting up to speed
2) “bulletproof” durability for running 24/7 without breakdown from wear - or DJ abuse
3) no fuss simplicity - nothing for DJ’s to mess around with..

Very thick and beefy idler

 

[belyin]

So I guess another question of mine in all this: How do upper range consumer DD models compare to broadcast DD models in general use performance, and where is the line drawn on between the two?

Does a high end model aimed at consumer use with broadcast deck-like features (high build quality, dedicated arm board/easy to change arms, a brake, etc.) make it a broadcast deck, or does it need to be sold as an individual drive unit to make the cut?

Part of the distinction is just marketing. The SL-1200 was first marketed to the home market before d.j.'s found it near perfect for their needs. Technics nearest equivalent for the broadcast market was the SP25 (third tier in the SP line after the 10 and the 15) motor unit. But they also produced plinths for the SP's to appeal to the audiophile market who generally weren't mounting them in built-in cabinetry. And the same is true for Denon, Sony, and Victor (JVC) for their big DD motor units (mostly marketed in Japan.) Denon and Sony also produced massive self-contained tables (with arms in preamps) that seemingly were aimed at EMT (the Denon 100M and Sony PS-X9,) but unlike the Technics they are extremely rare. The newest version of the SP10 is marketed to audiophiles; the small broadcast market has no interest in a $10,000+ when the SL-1200 is fine for their purposes.

 

[jlb2]

In addition to MisterDK's points, I will add that having a big torque is far from enough to qualify as a broadcast turntable. A broadcast turntable must meet two very important requirements:

- It must be able to locate the starting point manually and, once required, be up to speed almost instantly, much less than 1/2 second. This is usually achieved by a dual platter: the lower platter is in constant rotation, while the upper platter is separated fom the lower platter via a velvet (usually) layer which transmits the rotation to the upper platter with a calibrated torque. After cueing the record, the lower platter starts spinning while the upper platter is held by a mechanical brake shoe on its side. To start playing, the brake is released and the upper platter speeds to normal speed almost instantly. Same thing for stopping, you just press the brake shoe and the upper platter stops.

- It must be remote controlled from the mixer. When the DJ or technician wants to start playing a record, s.he just actuates the level pot, and a switch releases the brake shoe in the turntable. This cannot be done unless the latter has a remote connector.

If a turntable does not have these two features, it just is not a broadcast turntable, no matter its qualities in terms of performance or reliability. For instance I'll venture to say that the SP10 Mk 1 is not a broadcast turntable, just because it does not have them, which does not change anything to its qualities as a record player. OTOH the SP10 Mk 2 and Mk 3 are. AFAIK none of the SL1200

Also, for broadcast it is almost compulsory to have a built-in preamplifier with balanced line level outputs, since radio mixing desks - at least the serious ones - don't have phono preamplifiers and radio stations didn't care to bother with external preamplifiers - at least, not those that I've known. Only small community radios had "improved" DJ turntables with an external preamplifier, for cost reasons. The built-in pres were not usually of very high quality, and were matched to cartridges that weren't always the best sonically either, as the most important point was to be able to cue, so spherical stylus only. For instance Radio France used Shure SC35's for stereo, and the Stanton 500 was very popular too. Probably not what you would like for home listening.

Needless to say, all these features mean a much more complicated design, hence more cost and extra maintenance. In summary, being a broadcast turntable does not bring anything useful for home use. As for durability, I would buy a broadcast turntable only after carefully assessing its condition, as many were beaten to death and then left for dead in a basement. Such is the life of pro equipment.

As a reply to Stratokaster, the EMT 928 is indeed based on the Thorens TD125, but heavily modified for broadcast use: different belt for more torque as needed for the dual platter and the brake, tonearm changed for the EMT929 and EMT cartridges, modified suspension to match the added weight, built-in preamplifier, different connectors for line audio and remote start, different switches including a rotation switch and a mono/stereo selector. All these changes make the 928 a broadcast turntable in its own right, even though it was derived from a hifi turntable.

 

[jlb2]

The newest version of the SP10 is marketed to audiophiles; the small broadcast market has no interest in a $10,000+ when the SL-1200 is fine for their purposes.

In addition, the SP10R is not a broadcast turntable at all, it lacks the instant start/stop and remote control capability. More than just marketing, it's a matter of design.