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buying speakers

ferninando

ferninando

Lunatic Member
All the word of mouth speaker advice in the world is not going to do anything for how an individual hears speakers. All speakers should be heard before buying, regardless of what all the experts say. IMO.

this should be made a sticky in "speakers". IMO
 
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The problem is that everyone's opinion is subject to change without notice, sometimes as soon as the next time they listen.

The universal experience of visitors to ZilchLab has been opinion change, typically within the first 30 seconds of listening here.... :yes:
 
I'll remember that next time I find a pair curbside. "Ma'am, do you mind if I plug your trash in and give it a listen?"

:lmao:
 
Sticky? nah. If I had to learn the hard way, then why should others get off easy. :grumpy: :D

But yeah, agree about listening.

Opinions, taste, environment and systems make a difference and still no guarantee it will sound the same when you get home.

Listening at least can give you a clue of potential. I suggest a favorite CD(s) representing the music you will listen to or a compilation test CD-R. I like Cyndi Lauper's At Last because it's a great test for soaring and soft vocals (do they get lost with instruments or sound harsh), percussion (snappy), duet (imaging).
 
Product reviews, technical specs, friend's opinions, etc. can certainly help guide you in selecting a loudspeaker. But everyone's perceptions are different, their associated gear, room's dimensions, objects that are in or are part of the room, where the speakers are placed, where you sit, all are part of the end result. So unless you are going the DIY trial and error route, audition, audition, audition...
 
oldhifiguy said:
All the word of mouth speaker advice in the world is not going to do anything for how an individual hears speakers. All speakers should be heard before buying, regardless of what all the experts say. IMO.

this should be made a sticky in "speakers". IMO
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Agreed.:thmbsp:
 
I'm going to have to disagree - as some loudspeakers have such a pedigree that you cannot go wrong. You need only to have some flexibility in how you perceive sound. Chances are, that if a set of speakers is highly regarded by many, that you may too, join that group of fans.

My 2C's.
 
MaxSeven said:
I'm going to have to disagree - as some loudspeakers have such a pedigree that you cannot go wrong.
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Sure you can.

You need only to have some flexibility in how you perceive sound.
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That sounds like you're saying that you need to change your mind because everybody else likes them. Am I misunderstanding you?

Chances are, that if a set of speakers is highly regarded by many, that you may too, join that group of fans.
Click to expand...

Then again, maybe not. I have a pair of speakers in my living room right now that has a very large, very rabid following. I don't like them. I've been attacked for saying I don't like them. It doesn't change the fact that I don't like them. They won't be in my living room much longer.

IMO the OP was OK. You have to listen. However I don't think it should be a sticky as it's such a glaring example of common sense that anyone who doesn't probably deserves what they end up with. If we're talking about finding some vintage speakers at a garage sale that need foam then there's no realistic way to listen and you have to play the odds. In that case it pays to know a bit about what other folks think. However, you're probably not going to be throwing down your life savings on something at a garage sale. If you're in the HiFi store looking at some $5k speakers, then it doesn't matter what anyone else on the planet thinks about them. It's all up to your ears.

Ray
 
oldhifiguy said:
Zilch, so what's your point?
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I am disagreeing with you.

We HAVE to rely, in part, at least, on a variety of other resources, as Celt suggests, because, in isolation, our own perceptions are notoriously unreliable, and subject to caprice.

Experts are experts, by definition, because they know stuff, and while we may not agree with their opinions or analyses, we should give them due consideration in the decision-making process.

There's also the subjectivist/objectivist polarity in play here. There ARE facts, and while we're all free to ignore them, there is value in first knowing these to assist in forumuating our own opinion.... :yes:
 
The problem with a pedigree is often a "black sheep" in the family

MaxSeven said:
some loudspeakers have such a pedigree that you cannot go wrong. You need only to have some flexibility in how you perceive sound.
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NO "speaker manufacturer" has such a pedigree that someone can not go wrong!

You need only to have some "flexibility" in how you perceive sound?

There ARE some speaker manufacturers that produce such a product that any "reasonable person" would agree the quality of build is good and the sound is "good".

There are some speakers on the market that are so bad that any "reasonable person" would agree that they do not sound very good.

NO speaker manufacturer has that "pedigree". Individuals clearly hear sound and perceive that sound differently. Many "well-experienced" and "trained" listeners have listened to top-quality and very expensive speakers and declared that they sound very accurate, yet "sterile".

The so-called "flexibility" in how one perceives sound is another way of saying that you should agree with what someone says should be your perception of that sound!

I have little doubt that some people, after purchasing extremely expensive speakers because of their reputation or pedigree, find that they do not enjoy them as much as they thought they would, but attempt to convince themselves that they sound wonderful! This would be the "flexibility in how you perceive sound".

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but your 2 statements reek of "audio elitism" (which I don't believe was your intent).

I would also like you to name that manufacturer that you think has "that pedigree".

This is just part of a productive discussion. I request that you "have some flexibility in how you perceive" this discussion. :)
 
I'm guessing that as 70salesguy, you well understood how to manipulate the flexibility of those perceptons in the interest of maximum "spiff...." :thmbsp:
 
You're welcome to my opinion, sir!

Zilch said:
I'm guessing that as 70salesguy, you well understood how to manipulate the flexibility of those perceptons in the interest of maximum "spiff...." :thmbsp:
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I can honestly say that I never "pushed" a set of speakers on a customer. I would always try to identify what the customer was really wanting by "listening" to the customer (what a concept).

I would then offer to demo no more than 2 pairs that met his requirements. Remember, the customer would customarily set a price limit. I never had an "agenda". I liked "spiffs" as much as the next salesguy, but it never drove an agenda.

However..........................................I was aware of how to "manipulate the flexibility of those perceptions" when the customer was interested in an ESS Heil AMT-1, Bose 901 or an Advent. Hence came forth the "Advent Killer"! :D
 
70salesguy said:
The so-called "flexibility" in how one perceives sound is another way of saying that you should agree with what someone says should be your perception of that sound!

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but your 2 statements reek of "audio elitism" (which I don't believe was your intent).

I would also like you to name that manufacturer that you think has "that pedigree".

This is just part of a productive discussion. I request that you "have some flexibility in how you perceive" this discussion. :)
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It's not an intellectual competition with others regarding listening experiences with loudspeakers in my opinion. But chances are if a great many like a speaker, then it is possible that you may like it as well. This may require some flexibility in your perception of sound though. I'm just saying: Don't be so rigid in your parameters. Many times I move from one set of speakers to another. Those two sets may sound completely different, but at that moment, the pair I choose suits my mood.

As for audio elitism, I am completely against that! In fact I cannot stand it!

Hmmm, let me see, I can name quite a few that I feel has a pedigree in sound: Klipsch, Infinity, Advent, Acoustic Research, Thiel, Altec Lansing, Magnepan, Martin Logan, Wilson Audio, Magico, Totem, KEF well the list goes on and on.

Perhaps poorly worded on my part, but certainly each of the respected (pedigree) manufacturers have models that we all love and one shouldn't be limited to just one.
 
70salesguy:

I always wondered what happened when some jerk came in armed with a Consumer Reports article.

Was there a standard strategy for dealing with me? ;)
 
But do you like the "Moody" Blues?

Your list of speaker manufacturers would work with my "any reasonable person" stipulation about "good sound", but the sound of several of those manufactures differs greatly! Example : AR and Altec-Lansing, very different animals!

I will concur that sometimes "preconceived notions" can be dispelled with some listening with "open ears" and an "open mind".

The part about changing speakers according to mood is interesting. I DO choose my music depending on mood, but I have found that my choice in speakers works well with all those different types of music.

Thanks for the elucidation. :thmbsp:
 
MaxSeven said:
I'm going to have to disagree - as some loudspeakers have such a pedigree that you cannot go wrong. You need only to have some flexibility in how you perceive sound. Chances are, that if a set of speakers is highly regarded by many, that you may too, join that group of fans.
Click to expand...

70salesguy said:
NO "speaker manufacturer" has such a pedigree that someone can not go wrong!
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I see nothing in MaxSeven's post about any particular "speaker manufacturer" - only about a given loudspeaker.
 
I stand, well actually sit, corrected.

MarkAnderson said:
I see nothing in MaxSeven's post about any particular "speaker manufacturer" - only about a given loudspeaker.
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Valid point about semantics. :yes:

Now, name a loudspeaker with such a pedigree.

Remember my discussion about "any reasonable person".

But name one or more that "you can't go wrong" with. You might not go "very far" wrong, but a pair of AR 2ax, nice as they are, won't satisfy a Hard Rock fan that likes to play them loud!

But you are correct sir, he did not say a "speaker manufacturer", he said "some loudspeakers". I stand corrected. :o
 
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