Calling All Wharfedale w70 Owners - Need Help , New Wharfedale kid on the Block

[drbiggles]

Bracing, covers for back of mids, it all adds up to less bass. You’ll go from too small cabinets, to really too small cabinets. If you were putting massive watts through them, I’d worry about bracing. But you’re not, those cabinets are built well and enough for the drivers.

another point of view to look at the reason so many of us love listening to vintage equipment. It’s because of how it sounds. Be it a turntable, speakers, or amplifiers. If you go in with a multitude of perceived upgrades, you’re going to wind up with not whatever it is that you originally drug home. These old cabinets do resonate, this is why we love them. They have flavor, character, they’re alive, they have Elvis in them. If you would like well braced/null cabinets, with high order crossovers, you can buy new speakers. Or, English monitors. Celebrate the imperfections, enjoy what they are.

Biggles

 

[drbiggles]

I have a suggestion. If you would like to put in some solid, serious effort, on a pair of loudspeakers that require a lot of updating and modifications, I have a manufacturer for you. Find yourself a pair of Bozak B302A’s. Built after 1964, maybe into the early 70s. Factory original. AK is filthy with all the knowledge you’ll need. Bozak owners applaud innovation with mods/changes. You’re given a standing ovation if you move the tweeters out of their original location and into a cabinet that sits up on top of the originals. Crossover mods? The world is your oyster. Bass so detailed that you can taste the wood the cello was made from. Midrange so clear, precise and balanced your skill will melt. There’s even a Facebook users group where you can get help, offer assistance and share images on the fly. They’re at least worth reading about.

Biggles

 

[hallcon83]

-- well ........ how did you know I have started to look around at Bozaks, - - - don't know anything much about them, but their Cool looking speakers! But it will be awhile , i have a lot going on at the moment - and unfortunately they are more money than Wharfedale speakers too., I've got 3 speaker projects and several electronic projects going at the moment..... and a couple more planned , so no time for Bozaks ... yet. As far as the W70's don't worry, I don't plan on any huge mods that will mess up the speaker, after all I do like the way they sound! -- But I have noticed that there are 11 pairs of W70's for sale on eBay at the moment , so not an endangered species - LOL ...
- My plan is just replacing the ancient parts first, the two caps and the two L-pads per speaker..... then spend some time getting to know them . After that maybe try a couple of small crossover changes - But I plan on making the crossover boards interchangeable with each other so they can be easily installed and removed - nothing permanent. ---- First i want to try your Idea for the inductor/coil on the mid........ then maybe go back and listen a while to the original crossover again. -- Then I want to try a simple first order crossover at the frequencies you mentioned ... then maybe just a couple of other simple changes on the crossover .... just to satisfy my own curiosity. I do plan on a small enclosure of some kind on the midrange that has been mentioned several times, and that will probably be permanent . As for any braces go they to will be minimalist and removable as well , I want too try just dividing two of the panels with one fairly small (very) hardwood brace each in a different location on the panels .... so as an example one panel would end up with maybe a 1 x 1, or 1 x 2 inch thick piece of Ipe or some other strong piece of wood as a brace/ divider about - 1/3 up one of the panels ... then on the next panel maybe put the brace around a quarter up the panel or a little less, then leave the last panel whole. The idea is to see if the panels will resonate all at different frequencies instead of them all resonating at the same frequency , maybe fuller sounding or maybe more evenly distributed harmonics/tones - maybe - .......... but i am going to try and figure out a way that they will be able to be taken out if it doesn't sound any better, maybe a few small blocks glued and screwed in, to have something solid to attach them to - so hopefully nothing permanent on that front as well. The last thing I do want to try, is to do something about the problem of the woofer operating in too small of a space... I have two Ideas about that .I will try and explain my ideas next post , time to try and get some sleep - i haven't slept yet...............

Best Regards,
Dean

 

[drbiggles]

Understood. It’s been a while since I’ve had my head stuck into the Wharfedale scene. At that time replacements for the L-pads weren’t available new. If youve found them, kudos! My concerns about modding your W70’s wasn’t that they’re rare and vintage. Hell, I’ll cut into nearly anything if I have a mind to. It was that the ones you were talking about weren’t going to improve their performance, and more likely will degrade their performance. You rarely get improvements for free, there’s a price to be paid.

Biggles

 

[doctorolds]

Here's my take on your W70's @hallcon83. They will always be W70's, what you do to make them better or worse is your choice. From the pictures posted I think your cabinets can be beautiful with the normal refinishing techniques listed on this forum. Many experienced members have restored this model and have provided recommendations in many threads. Key points to their restoration would be new capacitors, enclosing the midrange, rotate driver's, and ensuring the potentiometer's are thoroughly cleaned and functional. If you choose this route and give them a good listen you should be satisfied with how they sound. No amount of time, effort, and money will be worth it in the end. They will be restored W70's that sound as good as they can, or something else? If the suggestions above are followed and you are not happy with their performance then you will be able to sell them fairly easy and hopefully get a fair price allowing you to move up to another set of speakers you may desire. Best of luck with your restoration no matter what direction you choose!

 

[hallcon83]

- Hi doctorolds, and drbiggles - ( seems like there are a lot of doctors around here- LOL ) -- thanks for the input, that's pretty much my plan , and I am a fan -- I already like the W70's sound without any restoration so that part can only get better - and the all the advice here is in agreement with you , in the end the w70's may just be a stepping stone. -- My original reason to buy them was curiosity.... I read lots of good reports of the Vintage Wharfedales and wanted to hear them for myself! ...... After all my reading I came across another Idea that really intrigued me, so part of the plan was to see if I liked them enough to justify my next goal which is a much more expensive proposition - at least to my pocket book...... If they were everything that most people were saying they were , and If I liked them ALOT , my original plan was sell the restored W70's and use the money plus more of my savings to collect the right parts to build these speakers below . . . . . . . . . . . ( of coarse I may like them so much I can't part with them ! ) ---












them)them and may keep both models -

 

[hallcon83]

--- I REALLY want to own a pair of Wharfedale SFB-3's ............. unfortunately they are a lot harder to come by - - - and ALOT more money... so I'm Hoping I can find the three sets of the drivers needed ... and that I can afford to buy, so I can build replicas of them - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hallcon83]

- Is there anyone out there that has heard a W70 or W90 and a SFB-3 Speaker ? I am wondering how they compare to to the SBF-3 Speaker?????

 

[hallcon83]

- So one of the suggestions improving for the Wharfedale W70 is that the 12 inch woofers that are in the speaker are in too small of a cabinet... and that the woofer needs at least 5-7 cubic feet to perform at it's best. But if you don't want to change the size of the cabinet, or the basic design look of the speaker is there anything you can do ???
- Here are a couple ideas I had that you might try. - One Idea to try wood be to add passive Radiators. The passive radiator makes the woofer behave like it is in a larger cabinet, or another way to look at it is - it allows you to get better performance from your woofer. Here is a short article on passive Radiators...

 

[hallcon83]

- Here is the second Idea that I came across that could help the woofer in the W70 to perform better. --- There is a woofer implementation that is called an isobaric woofer design and Isobaric woofers can come be configured in several different ways , but there is one design in particular that really got my attention in that it might be helpful in this situation. The basic idea is that if you install a second woofer in a second chamber in the speaker, when you do the first woofer behaves like it is in a much bigger compartment than it is....The key is that the two drivers move in the direction at the same time. Meaning the air trapped between them isn't pressurized. The only problem is that by the time you install the second woofer behind the first woofer in it's own compartment the amount of space that the second woofer needs is almost the same as if you just added the proper space that the first woofer required in the first place, so it's not very cost effective. But there is one isobaric design I found that might work without needing the same space requirement......... the only problem is I haven't found anyone who has any experience with how much help this design would be, so I basically would have to find out for myself. Luckily I had already picked up a second pair of the same 12 inch W70 woofers for a super low price -- so were off to the races. Here is a couple of pictures that may better explain the idea. In the 1st picture it is the middle example, the 2nd is .... self explanatory , and in the 3rd example it's the Front to back design. ------ I did find one reference that said that this isobaric design can reduce the needed cabinet volume by half --

 

[hallcon83]

- The W70 comes in a few different models , some open from the back and some open from the front, of coarse mine happen to be the design that opens from the front , which means it is the model that has the back wall with sand in it for extra sound dampening.... so cutting a large hole in it sorta defeats some of the purpose for the sand wall design. I don't want the design changes to be permanent so my way around that is to very carefully cut the back wall off, then do what it takes to clean up the newly cut edges, veneering or staining them to match , then build a small frame around the inside of the main box to have something solid that I can use to attach the back, back on to , and build a small corresponding frame on the the back wall as well to fit inside the new back opening. I will need to add a good gasket to that frame so when I reattach the back it will be airtight , and while I'm at it I will add some screw inserts to make it easier to take it off and on without damage to the wood. Then I will make a second back for the box , this one will be sand filled as well, but it will have the cut out for the second set of woofers to see if it will make as big a difference as I am hoping it will. I want to mount the second woofer with the edge on the inside so it wont stick out very much from the back of the speaker box , maybe even making a 3/4 inch spacer for the inside so that only about half of the second woofer will be visible on the back. And then cover that with a small round frame with speaker grill cloth over the frame so it cleans up the look of the speaker. -- If the idea doesn't work out, then at the very least it makes it easier to get inside the speaker by going thru the back instead of the front, the front is a hassle because of how awkward it is to handle with the drivers attached. I also can include both backs if I ever decide to sell the speaker, and next owner can decide which way he wants to configure the speaker box.
- I know that I have suggested a number of modifications or design changes from the basic W70 speaker, but ALL of the design changes I am wanting to try will basically be reversible as well, so there will be no permanent changes to the basic design. -

 

[doctorolds]

 

[hallcon83]

So ....... is anyone there......... anyone there .r.r..r......... anyone ther ..r...r......... any n thr ....r............ any ... th ......r.....................


- yes that's an echo .............. starting to feel like I'm alone in a big cave . . . . . . . . . . .



--- I was hoping to get some responses to the question in post # 28 ..... is there anyone who has W60's, W70's, or W90's, that has heard Wharfedale SFB-3 Speakers? -- how do they compare - - - - contrast ???????


--------------- ( Maybe I should start a second thread asking that question in the Title line ) ..................


--- also I was hoping to get a little feedback on the ideas for creating a better environment for the 12 inch Woofer in the W70's..........


- has anyone ever tried either of those ideas on a speaker ? ? ?

 

[mech986]

Sorry to inform you that Carl (spkrdtr) passed away in 2018, RIP Consider posting your question in relevant Speakers or British Audio threads or start a new thread.

Bart, mech986

 

[AdmiralAKAI]

How did this turn out for you? I have a pair of the original W70 3-ways that I am currently restoring. Spent many, many hours figuring out what it is that I am going to do.

Wharfedale W70 Restoration Project

Project Overview
This document includes the wiring plan, crossover details, restoration notes, and provenance for the
early Wharfedale W70 loudspeakers featuring the single Super 3 cone tweeter, sand-filled back panel,
and 12” + 8” + Super 3 configuration.

Wiring Summary
• Woofer: Red post → 1.0 mH inductor → woofer (+). Woofer (–) → black post.
• 8" Wide-range: Red post → driver (+). Driver (–) → black post.
• Tweeter: Red post → capacitor → Pot Lug 3 → Pot Lug 2 → Tweeter (+). Tweeter (–) → black post.
• Pot lug 1 unused.
• Internal wiring: 16 AWG tinned copper silicone wire (NAOEVO).

Components
• Tweeter: Wharfedale Super 3 (original type, UK Pat. 920282).
• Inductor: Dayton Audio AC201 1.0 mH air-core.
• Capacitor: 4–4.7 μF (tweeter high-pass).
• Potentiometer: Original 3-lug unit, lugs 3 → 2 in series.
• Internal wiring: NAOEVO 16 AWG tinned copper silicone wire.

Origin
Manufactured by Wharfedale Wireless Works, Yorkshire, England. Early 1962–1964 production of the
first-generation W70 2-way system.

Distributor Information
These speakers were officially imported and sold by The Radio People Ltd., the premier distributor of
British high-fidelity equipment in Hong Kong during the 1950s–1970s. Their badge indicates the
speakers were sold through the Kowloon showroom at 31 Nathan Road, with stock tracked under
internal Serial No. 7434.

Historical Significance
• Rare early export model with single Super 3 tweeter.
• Sand-filled back panel consistent with early Wharfedale engineering.
• Sold by The Radio People Ltd., increasing collector significance.
• Matches features of earliest W70 production prior to W70D/W70E revisions.

Restoration Status
• Correct Super 3 tweeters installed.
• Vintage-accurate wiring using 18 AWG tinned copper silicone wire.
• Proper crossover restoration using inductor, capacitor, and potentiometer.
• Cabinet, baffle, and internal damping preserved to original layout.