Can Magnepan Aluminum wires be soldered? Edit: YES! With the right solder & flux.
- Thread starter Johnny_Law
- Start date
@ericj is the man - the aluminum solder kit showed up and worked like a charm.
A couple notes: I used my soldering iron, a Hakko digital. I read online to use 450 degrees for Aluminum soldering, but that was not enough. I had to turn it up to 850F. (EDIT: Perhaps the online guidance was in Celsius ... 450C being fairly close to 850F thanks for the tip @Blue Shadow)
What ended up working was laying the stripped wire down on the terminal and holding it there, then placing some drops of flux on the wire end. I then melted the solder provided in the kit (Al? Al / zinc? no idea) onto the soldering iron. Then I touched the melted solder down to the flux'd wire and it successfully soldered to the terminal strip.
Hooray! Speaker #1 is done.
However, Magnepan shorted me in their wire kit ... short by ~25% of the second speaker. Ugh. That was a waste of a morning. Will be calling them on Monday, but will keep further b*tching out of this thread at risk of derailing it from discussion of the solder solution.
(Edit: Spoke w/ Magnepan. The MG-IIa uses longer-than-normal bass wire. So if you are ordering replacement bass wire, let them know it's for an MG-IIa and you'll need ~25% longer wire than normal! Also, the MG-IIa nominally uses 22 gauge wire while the MG-IIb uses 23 gauge wire although Magnepan mentioned either should be OK.)
A couple notes: I used my soldering iron, a Hakko digital. I read online to use 450 degrees for Aluminum soldering, but that was not enough. I had to turn it up to 850F. (EDIT: Perhaps the online guidance was in Celsius ... 450C being fairly close to 850F thanks for the tip @Blue Shadow)
What ended up working was laying the stripped wire down on the terminal and holding it there, then placing some drops of flux on the wire end. I then melted the solder provided in the kit (Al? Al / zinc? no idea) onto the soldering iron. Then I touched the melted solder down to the flux'd wire and it successfully soldered to the terminal strip.
Hooray! Speaker #1 is done.
However, Magnepan shorted me in their wire kit ... short by ~25% of the second speaker. Ugh. That was a waste of a morning. Will be calling them on Monday, but will keep further b*tching out of this thread at risk of derailing it from discussion of the solder solution.
(Edit: Spoke w/ Magnepan. The MG-IIa uses longer-than-normal bass wire. So if you are ordering replacement bass wire, let them know it's for an MG-IIa and you'll need ~25% longer wire than normal! Also, the MG-IIa nominally uses 22 gauge wire while the MG-IIb uses 23 gauge wire although Magnepan mentioned either should be OK.)
Last edited:
GD70
Lunatic Member
Looking great! It took me a long time to solder the aluminum wires. Like you I had my gun as hot as it would go, and it took some time to get the solder to flow.
Bummer regarding the wire shortage, but Magnepan will be good sending you more.
Thanks Glen!
Well, I need to order more anyway so hopefully they are agreeable about it ...
We've all got our tricks when laying new wire down, if you see those little pieces of metal holding the ends down, those are feeler gauges. I have a ton of them after shimming my Volvo's block recently and they're perfect for the task of holding the ends down while new wire is being ran.
ericj
Well-Known Member
I guess it was a good idea for me to use my 850f tip on the weller wtcps (or was it wtcpt? I forget, same thing nearly).
Good to hear it's going well. Sucks that they shorted you.
My repairs aren't going too badly. Trying to hypothesize a fix for the panel with a big hole in the membrane. Maybe i start with a square of mylar somehow attached to some rubber bands at the corners, strung out on push pins in the wood frame, and some contact cement. maybe a light dusting of corn starch on the magnet structure to prevent the patch from sticking to the magnets. And then just some good old dap weldwood.
At least I am under the impression that magnepan isn't going to send me a new membrane, and sending this in for full replacement of the wire and membrane structure would cost more than just buying some other pair of SMGa with fewer problems.
Good to hear it's going well. Sucks that they shorted you.
My repairs aren't going too badly. Trying to hypothesize a fix for the panel with a big hole in the membrane. Maybe i start with a square of mylar somehow attached to some rubber bands at the corners, strung out on push pins in the wood frame, and some contact cement. maybe a light dusting of corn starch on the magnet structure to prevent the patch from sticking to the magnets. And then just some good old dap weldwood.
At least I am under the impression that magnepan isn't going to send me a new membrane, and sending this in for full replacement of the wire and membrane structure would cost more than just buying some other pair of SMGa with fewer problems.
Johngeez
New Member
Edit w/ answer: YES and my big Weller does it way faster than my smaller Hakko
I got away in my previous Magnepan repairs never to have to solder Aluminum, but those days are over. I have an MG-IIa with new wires glued on them which refuse to allow themselves to be soldered into place. I have spent the last few days searching for tips / clues.
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/alex.html (mentions use of silver solder, while elsewhere I've found suggestions that silver solder does not work on Aluminum, e.g., https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ng-and-fab/silver-soldering-aluminium-131405/)
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/tweaks/DavePride/ (mentions Al solder as if it's a breeze and easily available ... I have not found this to be true)
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/magapans.96835/ (ends w/ @pustelniakr summarizing how difficult it is, but not how to do it)
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/help-soldering-aluminum-magnet-wire.223629/ (the previous thread by @pustelniakr looking for advice on how to do it, and I imagine the genesis of his opinion on how difficult it is)
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/searc...wmessage=&sort=score&sortOrder=DESC&forum=mug
https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=mug&m=41262
Etc etc
I cannot find a definitive answer to the question, how do I solder new Magnepan aluminum wires? Most threads end with a statement that it's difficult, or that Magnepan used to supply the solder in the kits but no longer does, or something non-definitive about how actually do it.
So I turned to the Internet, have searched online for a few days and cannot find any aluminum solder kits that work with a soldering iron (I have found various (e.g.) that require a torch ... and I don't want my propane torch anywhere near the mylar).
One option is to remove the solder terminal and use a screw-type strip (which is, from what I gather, akin to what Magnepan themselves have done with newer models). However, the tweeter wire on MG-IIs needs to be soldered in a different place on the panel so a screw-terminal wouldn't work.
Could I please ask that someone who has successfully soldered new aluminum wires into Magnepans chime in with how you did it?
Thank you in advance for any guidance!
At the risk of being shamed, I might as well weigh in here. I have a long story but since this thread is about wire, I'll try to be brief and focus on wire. If you read to the end you'll hear bout some copper-clad aluminum wire I'm trying on my tweeters.
I've wanted a pair of MP for over 50 years and saw a pair of MG I (improved) on CL a while back. Bought them sight unseen for $100, might have been a mistake, there was actually a cockroach on one of them as the seller carried them to my truck.
But I am a tinkerer (and retired EE) so I charged ahead with cleaning, disassembly, more cleaning and some initial testing. I then called MP and got technical and ordering details for repair materials. But I decided to proceed on my own because a) can't get the glue during the winter, as others have reported; b) these speakers were very bad internally; c) right now for me learning is more important than listening; d) I am cheap.
Anyway both tweeters were completely useless, shards of wire everywhere. Most of the u-turns on the mids were delaminated and turned up, up to about 2-3 inches of peelback. One mid worked out of the gate and one had a broken wire. Lots of mylar damage but nothing catastrophic. Since the one mid didn't sound too bad with an audio sweep I decided to see if the mids could be salvaged and then go from there.
To isolate the broken mid wire I scraped the enamel off of the u-turns at select places and finally isolated the break. Fortunately only one break so I decided to continue. Using a DMM with a continuity beeper was a big help.
I know from experience how hard it is to solder aluminum wire so I didn't even try that. Fortunately the break was within 1 inch of a u-turn so I decided to repair it with a crimp. Used acetone, peeled back and cleaned the broken wires a little, scraped the enamel and installed a tiny crimp. Using the DMM beeper to monitor continuity while I crimped was a big help. After it appeared that the crimp was solid I think I backfilled it with some carbon nanotube conductive glue I had laying around, just to be sure. I think the crimp actually came from my fishing tackle, sort of like one of these:
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/hi-seas-grand-slam-aluminum-sleeves
Here are some pics of the crimp installed (and glued down as discussed below).
After more testing to confirm the crimp was solid, I proceeded to repair the mylar and re-attach the u-turns. Lots of effort here and I used Scotch tape a lot as other have discussed elsewhere, But the thing I'd most like to share with the forum is the material I used to adhere the the tape and reseat all of the delamination's. I've had luck tinkering with this stuff in the past, so I decided to use it again. This is an acetone-based gasoline resistant sealant so I put a little in a jar with some acetone, stirred it up until I got what I judged to be a nice uniform slightly gooey liquid, and proceeded to brush it on. Did a nice job of sticking down the crimp, u-turns and tape. I then put a final thin coat over all of the mid wiring to seal in the old glue and tighten up some buzzing which I surfaced using audio sweeps and single tone testing. Did some crude audio tests and so far its been 4-5 weeks and everything is still in place.
On to the tweeters, which needed a complete stripping away from the mylar. Lots of acetone and Scotch Brite scrubbies cleaned up the tweeter area nicely. But that wire.....
To begin with I did a lot of research including things like estimating the length of the wire in the tweeter section, researching the resistance that the tweeter presents to the crossover, measuring the diameter of some tweeter wire shards, etc. I may be completely off base but I somehow came to the conclusion that MP was using 30 AWG aluminum wire for this tweeter.
I read somewhere that MP uses Al wire to keep the weight down and thus the response time up, but I really didn't want to use aluminum wire because of the soldering. How much weight difference can there be? My handy periodic table says that Cu weighs about 2.5 times as Al, that seemed like a big difference so I considered using 32 AWG Cu but even that weighs twice as much as 30 AWG Al. Of course such weight considerations may be moot given for now I am living with all of the sealed-up old glue in the mid section.
Of course none of this means anything because I'm constrained by wire availability so off to eBay to see what was available without going through special channels. Not much small aluminum magnet wire around. I decided to buy some 32 AWG Cu, it was only $9 and gave me something to play with. I never actually attached this to the Mylar but used it to practice wiring the tweeter area. During these practice sessions I built some small pedestals to allow wiring of the tweeter u-turns by gluing nylon PWB spacers to some spare thin plastic scraps and then taping these assemblies to the speaker with some painters tape.
(Whoops in this pic I used some plastic rod but I used nylon PWB spacers on the fixture at the other end of the tweeter.) In other words, tape these down, get wires in place, glue most of the wires. After the long runs of glue dries, remove these and glue the u-turns in place. I also read somewhere a recommendation for running DC through the wire to align the wire with the magnets while gluing, so during my practicing with the 32 AWG Cu wire I was able to get that working well once I realized that polarity matters!
In the meantime I continued my search for wire options and came across some copper clad aluminum wire on eBay!! It is still available:
30 AWG Cu clad Al enameled wire
After a bunch of confused communications with the seller (china of course, but willing to put up with me) regarding how thick the Cu cladding was, and some other details about weight, I came to the conclusion that this wire was only about 30% heavier than pure 30 AWG Al, and significantly less than even the 32 AWG Cu, so I ordered some. Fast forward and today I completed installing the 30 AWG Cu clad Al into one of the tweeter sections and believe me being able to solder that wire is a godsend, especially when you inadvertently break a u-turn after most of the wire has been glued down. Yes, this happened but I was able to peel back some wire with the assistance of some acetone, clean the enamel off, solder, and reglue. Here is a pic of that repair:
And a pic of the main tweeter area all cleaned up and glued down with the diluted Seal-All, nice and straight using some DC to align with the magnets.
Finally, in this pic you can see how the Seal-All was used to hold the leads in place for wiring to the crossover (not done yet). That green stuff is remnants from the original tweeter leads.
I have no idea what the final results will be or how long things will hold. But now I know how these things work and how to work on them. Which is really what I most care about. And who knows, if I enjoy these crappy MGs maybe I will spring for a real pair.
I may update this post later, or may not. Message me if you want to discuss further.
I've wanted a pair of MP for over 50 years and saw a pair of MG I (improved) on CL a while back. Bought them sight unseen for $100, might have been a mistake, there was actually a cockroach on one of them as the seller carried them to my truck.
But I am a tinkerer (and retired EE) so I charged ahead with cleaning, disassembly, more cleaning and some initial testing. I then called MP and got technical and ordering details for repair materials. But I decided to proceed on my own because a) can't get the glue during the winter, as others have reported; b) these speakers were very bad internally; c) right now for me learning is more important than listening; d) I am cheap.
Anyway both tweeters were completely useless, shards of wire everywhere. Most of the u-turns on the mids were delaminated and turned up, up to about 2-3 inches of peelback. One mid worked out of the gate and one had a broken wire. Lots of mylar damage but nothing catastrophic. Since the one mid didn't sound too bad with an audio sweep I decided to see if the mids could be salvaged and then go from there.
To isolate the broken mid wire I scraped the enamel off of the u-turns at select places and finally isolated the break. Fortunately only one break so I decided to continue. Using a DMM with a continuity beeper was a big help.
I know from experience how hard it is to solder aluminum wire so I didn't even try that. Fortunately the break was within 1 inch of a u-turn so I decided to repair it with a crimp. Used acetone, peeled back and cleaned the broken wires a little, scraped the enamel and installed a tiny crimp. Using the DMM beeper to monitor continuity while I crimped was a big help. After it appeared that the crimp was solid I think I backfilled it with some carbon nanotube conductive glue I had laying around, just to be sure. I think the crimp actually came from my fishing tackle, sort of like one of these:
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/hi-seas-grand-slam-aluminum-sleeves
Here are some pics of the crimp installed (and glued down as discussed below).
After more testing to confirm the crimp was solid, I proceeded to repair the mylar and re-attach the u-turns. Lots of effort here and I used Scotch tape a lot as other have discussed elsewhere, But the thing I'd most like to share with the forum is the material I used to adhere the the tape and reseat all of the delamination's. I've had luck tinkering with this stuff in the past, so I decided to use it again. This is an acetone-based gasoline resistant sealant so I put a little in a jar with some acetone, stirred it up until I got what I judged to be a nice uniform slightly gooey liquid, and proceeded to brush it on. Did a nice job of sticking down the crimp, u-turns and tape. I then put a final thin coat over all of the mid wiring to seal in the old glue and tighten up some buzzing which I surfaced using audio sweeps and single tone testing. Did some crude audio tests and so far its been 4-5 weeks and everything is still in place.
On to the tweeters, which needed a complete stripping away from the mylar. Lots of acetone and Scotch Brite scrubbies cleaned up the tweeter area nicely. But that wire.....
To begin with I did a lot of research including things like estimating the length of the wire in the tweeter section, researching the resistance that the tweeter presents to the crossover, measuring the diameter of some tweeter wire shards, etc. I may be completely off base but I somehow came to the conclusion that MP was using 30 AWG aluminum wire for this tweeter.
I read somewhere that MP uses Al wire to keep the weight down and thus the response time up, but I really didn't want to use aluminum wire because of the soldering. How much weight difference can there be? My handy periodic table says that Cu weighs about 2.5 times as Al, that seemed like a big difference so I considered using 32 AWG Cu but even that weighs twice as much as 30 AWG Al. Of course such weight considerations may be moot given for now I am living with all of the sealed-up old glue in the mid section.
Of course none of this means anything because I'm constrained by wire availability so off to eBay to see what was available without going through special channels. Not much small aluminum magnet wire around. I decided to buy some 32 AWG Cu, it was only $9 and gave me something to play with. I never actually attached this to the Mylar but used it to practice wiring the tweeter area. During these practice sessions I built some small pedestals to allow wiring of the tweeter u-turns by gluing nylon PWB spacers to some spare thin plastic scraps and then taping these assemblies to the speaker with some painters tape.
(Whoops in this pic I used some plastic rod but I used nylon PWB spacers on the fixture at the other end of the tweeter.) In other words, tape these down, get wires in place, glue most of the wires. After the long runs of glue dries, remove these and glue the u-turns in place. I also read somewhere a recommendation for running DC through the wire to align the wire with the magnets while gluing, so during my practicing with the 32 AWG Cu wire I was able to get that working well once I realized that polarity matters!
In the meantime I continued my search for wire options and came across some copper clad aluminum wire on eBay!! It is still available:
30 AWG Cu clad Al enameled wire
After a bunch of confused communications with the seller (china of course, but willing to put up with me) regarding how thick the Cu cladding was, and some other details about weight, I came to the conclusion that this wire was only about 30% heavier than pure 30 AWG Al, and significantly less than even the 32 AWG Cu, so I ordered some. Fast forward and today I completed installing the 30 AWG Cu clad Al into one of the tweeter sections and believe me being able to solder that wire is a godsend, especially when you inadvertently break a u-turn after most of the wire has been glued down. Yes, this happened but I was able to peel back some wire with the assistance of some acetone, clean the enamel off, solder, and reglue. Here is a pic of that repair:
And a pic of the main tweeter area all cleaned up and glued down with the diluted Seal-All, nice and straight using some DC to align with the magnets.
Finally, in this pic you can see how the Seal-All was used to hold the leads in place for wiring to the crossover (not done yet). That green stuff is remnants from the original tweeter leads.
I have no idea what the final results will be or how long things will hold. But now I know how these things work and how to work on them. Which is really what I most care about. And who knows, if I enjoy these crappy MGs maybe I will spring for a real pair.
I may update this post later, or may not. Message me if you want to discuss further.
RolfNoot
New Member
I found a nice solution to solder Magnepan wires without any special flux or soldering wire
Please see:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/soldering-aluminium-voice-coil-wire-magnepan.991072/
Please see:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/soldering-aluminium-voice-coil-wire-magnepan.991072/
BobbyBluz
Super Member
I was given a pair of MG III's in 1998. One was damaged and I got a repair kit from Magnepan with everything needed in it to do a complete repair properly. It's been a long time but I recall there were a lot of things in it along with full instructions. I used a 45 watt chisel tip Ungar iron for the aluminum solder. While being somewhat time consuming it was fairly easy to do.
andy
Super Member
For the rare occasion when I need to solder aluminum wire, I use a product from Multicore called Alu-Sol.
https://www.newark.com/multicore-loctite/alu-45d-4c-0-9mm-s-500g/solder-wire-alusol/dp/15J8243
https://www.newark.com/multicore-loctite/alu-45d-4c-0-9mm-s-500g/solder-wire-alusol/dp/15J8243