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Cassette Revival (again)

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It’s the Analog crowd of which I’m a member, It’s a nostalgia thing as well
A good tape on a good machine, A restored KENWOOD/JVC,In my case, Sounds Pretty spectacular
It’s definitely a thing, My store is selling them like hot cakes according to the owner
 
Love your collection baeron, I could easily slip any of those in and have a great evening.

One thing these articles completely miss and I've been saying it for years, the equipment being used is just as important as the tapes! For over 22 years the little forum www.stereo2go.com has chugging alone talking about all of the awesome portable tape decks and players. Amazing equipment, some which sold for more than some of the best Nakamichis, that came in all kinds of sizes, colors and looks.

Back when most of their members were considered 40 year old virgins, they still got respect and now 20 some years later the world is listening and tapes have come back! Not only that but the $4.99 thrift store TPS-L2 is now going for several hundreds of dollars and most TOTL models going for thousands of dollars. Guess what you need to play them?
 
Lately the music I want it’s been cheaper to buy the LP reissue than a cassette version.
 
No, there is no comeback. They tried to play the same trick as with LPs, but both cassettes and cassette machines are more complex products than vinyl and record players. Use what is available now, but there will be no revival.
 
No, there is no comeback. They tried to play the same trick as with LPs, but both cassettes and cassette machines are more complex products than vinyl and record players. Use what is available now, but there will be no revival.

I agree. There is no come back because there are no infrastructure being built. There is no new quality decks being produced. The new Teac and Tascam models being sold now are the same machine mechanically underneath with cosmetic changes on the outside. The tape transport mechanisms are made out of cheap plastic with absolutely horrid wow & flutter specs. The audio being produced have high distortion numbers. These new decks have no noise reduction systems either. Any entry level deck made in the 70s and 80s will mop the floor with these new decks.

Then their is the tape medium itself. I see no new type 2 or type 4 tapes being produced.

For this to be a comeback, you need to see the supporting infrastructure grow but it simply isn't.
 
The new Teac and Tascam models being sold now are the same machine mechanically underneath with cosmetic changes on the outside. The tape transport mechanisms are made out of cheap plastic with absolutely horrid wow & flutter specs. The audio being produced have high distortion numbers. These new decks have no noise reduction systems either. Any entry level deck made in the 70s and 80s will mop the floor with these new decks.
Wrong. The new TEAC and TASCAM cassette decks are good-quality products. The mechanism is made of metal and the actual measured wow & flutter is comparable to many vintage decks. They implement DNR for playing Dolby B NR encoded tapes. And the actual measured frequency response is actually better than a vintage Denon deck from the 1980s:

Then their is the tape medium itself. I see no new type 2 or type 4 tapes being produced.
New Type II chrome-equivalent tape is now being manufactured. So far the quality isn't as good as vintage Type II tape but they're still working on improving the formulation. And most people using cassette tapes today don't mind a bit of background hiss -- it's part of the charm of the format, like the pops and clicks of vinyl. If you want audio with a totally silent background, that's why digital was invented!
For this to be a comeback, you need to see the supporting infrastructure grow but it simply isn't.
Remember that when vinyl first started coming back in the late 2000s, you could buy cheap portable record players and expensive DJ and audiophile turntables, but not much in between. It took a while for a robust selection of good-quality entry-level and mid-range turntables to become available again. If the growth of cassette tapes continues (it may reach one million sold in the U.S. in 2022) then it will follow suit.

In fact, the new cassette decks that are available today are having trouble staying in stock because as each batch of them is shipped to retailers, they keep selling out. TASCAM even had to stop production of their CD/cassette combo deck for a while because they ran out of enough parts to make them!
 
I can understand the comeback of records, but the comeback of cassette is the height of ridiculousness. Unless you were highly fortunate enough to have a Nakamichi, especially a Dragon, trying to use it with Dolby B or C usually dulled the highs too much. Even without Dolby, the highs may still be too dulled. Cassettes always sucked more than vinyl ever did. The only disadvantage vinyl had to cassettes was there no practical way to play vinyl in your car.
 
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The new TEAC and TASCAM cassette decks are good-quality products. The mechanism is made of metal and the actual measured wow & flutter is comparable to many vintage decks.
Yes, it is comparable in that when comparing the numbers, old decks win hands down. Any half-decent component deck back then had W&F no higher 0.1% WRMS, both as spec'd and as measured, anything above it was BPC. The Teac/Tascam decks are spec'd at 0.25%, and your measurements show 70% difference between the left and right decks - is this supposed to reflect high quality and consistency?

Why do they specify 0.25% ?
  • Maybe because they are not confident enough that if they specify anything lower, they would not be able to deliver it across the board, which is caused either by their own assembly quality or by the high variability of the parts' quality.
  • Maybe because the performance can drop pretty fast over time, faster than the duration of the warranty period, and they want to have some cushion.
  • Maybe because they don't want customers to return their products when their symphonic concert turns into wobbly mess at 0.2%
You can say that your deck works fine, but it is not the point, the point is the manufacturer is not confident in consistent long-term performance.

most people using cassette tapes today don't mind a bit of background hiss -- it's part of the charm of the format, like the pops and clicks of vinyl.
Don't tell vinyl aficionados that vinyl's charm is about pops and clicks, they think vinyl is better than CD. But really, without good tape, good mechanisms, good heads, Dolby (including HX Pro), it would be more fitting for Teac/Tascam to, um, re-imagine their deck in a late 1960-s body, something that was popular in the ancient times before Advent installed Dolby into their deck. Something like this...

1.jpg


Drat! The darn machine has Dolby. But otherwise, this would be a more fitting design to what they sell now. This strategy worked quite well for Corey Lieblein.

VTA-204B-MAH_700x700.jpg


Remember that when vinyl first started coming back in the late 2000s, you could buy cheap portable record players and expensive DJ and audiophile turntables, but not much in between. It took a while for a robust selection of good-quality entry-level and mid-range turntables to become available again. If the growth of cassette tapes continues (it may reach one million sold in the U.S. in 2022) then it will follow suit.
Nothing like that will happen with cassettes. This is capitalism after all, and there are no money in cassettes and cassette decks. Half the people buy LPs for album art to put them on a bookshelf, they will not be buying cassettes for this. Three traits that differentiated cassettes were compactness, mobility and recordability, all these can be achieved with digital. Cassettes have no "wow" factor for those who do not have fond memories for them.
The only disadvantage vinyl had to cassettes was there no practical way to play vinyl in your car.
Vinyl cannot be played on the go, cannot be recorded and cannot be put into a pocket. All these work in favor of vinyl right now as a trendy posh media for home listening. "Want to listen to my new record? Ah, cannot bring it to school, but if you come over..." Although to me an R2R with 10-inch reels looks very sexy.

 
Yes, it is comparable in that when comparing the numbers, old decks win hands down. Any half-decent component deck back then had W&F no higher 0.1% WRMS, both as spec'd and as measured, anything above it was BPC.
But we're not "back then" anymore. I've seen a lot of vintage decks that are incapable of meeting their factory specifications, even with new belts of the correct size, due to 30-40 years of wear and tear on the mechanism and motor, and the inconsistent quality of new belts (see below). And that's assuming you're prepared to service it yourself, or get lucky and find one that works properly without any repairs needed. But a lot of people don't want to get lucky or learn the inner workings of a 40-year-old machine. They just want something new with a money-back guarantee and warranty that they know will work. That's why I'm glad that new equipment of decent quality and performance exists.
The Teac/Tascam decks are spec'd at 0.25%, and your measurements show 70% difference between the left and right decks - is this supposed to reflect high quality and consistency?
They're making the best cassette deck possible today. And both decks are significantly better than the manufacturer's specification. They reason why they're not both a lot better is because of the belts. Rubber belts need to be accurately cut to within thousandths of an inch to deliver low W&F. If the thickness of the belt is wrong or inconsistent, it'll cause the W&F to increase. And this is a problem with both new decks and vintage ones. If the belts in a vintage deck are still OK, I leave them alone, because the new belts that are being made today just aren't as good. You may need to order several of them and experiment to see which ones have the lowest W&F, like I did in this video:

You can say that your deck works fine, but it is not the point, the point is the manufacturer is not confident in consistent long-term performance.
I'm the one who actually owns the equipment and has used and tested and experimented with it for the past four years, while you're just sitting in your chair and making guesses. I'll let the readers decide whose arguments are more persuasive.
Don't tell vinyl aficionados that vinyl's charm is about pops and clicks, they think vinyl is better than CD.
Vinyl aficionados aren't the ones responsible for vinyl's revival. It's kids with cheap suitcase players. The two top-selling brands are Victrola and Crosley. Almost 90% of all new turntables sold are under $200.
Nothing like that will happen with cassettes. This is capitalism after all, and there are no money in cassettes and cassette decks.
Somebody has to be making money, if National Audio Company (the largest manufacturer of cassette tapes in the U.S.) says business is better now than it has ever been in the past 20 years, and TEAC/TASCAM and Marantz are having trouble making enough new cassette decks to keep up with demand.
Cassettes have no "wow" factor for those who do not have fond memories for them.
But they do have a "wow" factor for those who do have fond memories of them. That's why sales are doubling year after year, and we'll likely see nearly a million new cassette tapes sold in the U.S. in 2022 -- not counting all the used ones that are being sold in record stores, thrift stores, Discogs, eBay, etc.
 
But we're not "back then" anymore. I've seen a lot of vintage decks that are incapable of meeting their factory specifications, even with new belts of the correct size, due to 30-40 years of wear and tear on the mechanism and motor, and the inconsistent quality of new belts.
So, after 40 years or wear and tear many of these old decks still perform better than new ones. This says enough about the new ones that - oh, Lordy! - come with a one-year warranty.
I'm the one who actually owns the equipment and has used and tested and experimented with it for the past four years, while you're just sitting in your chair and making guesses.
As I said above, your owning and testing one machine proves nothing exciting. It does not change the pitiful specs, it does not change the lack of features. If anything, it proves that the performance is all over the place with almost two times difference between two mechas of the same machine.
Vinyl aficionados aren't the ones responsible for vinyl's revival. It's kids with cheap suitcase players. The two top-selling brands are Victrola and Crosley. Almost 90% of all new turntables sold are under $200.
That is exactly my point above. $600 component deck is on the opposite end of the scale. If anything is going to move the needle it would be 21st century ghetto blasters, but as Techmoan has shown, the available machines are laughable hollow half-functioning imitations that copy the look of iconic models. I don't expect them getting better, I don't expect genuine new external styling and genuine engineering.
Somebody has to be making money, if National Audio Company (the largest manufacturer of cassette tapes in the U.S.) says business is better now than it has ever been in the past 20 years
Anything is better than zero, and both vinyl and cassettes were pretty much at zero point twenty years ago, and NAC is the only manufacturer left.
TEAC/TASCAM and Marantz are having trouble making enough new cassette decks to keep up with demand.
Yeah, they could not complete ten orders they received because they have only five mechas of which only two kinda sorta satisfy their pitiful specs after careful hand picking, no wonder they are so expensive.
But they do have a "wow" factor for those who do have fond memories of them.
Thirty years ago I really wanted a good deck with great specs, with auto bias, reverse, Dolby S, etc, with good looks. I lusted for it. Modern decks are just a spit in a face. They are fakes. They are as hollow as the marble columns of Caesar Palace in Las Vegas, which are just thin-walled painted tins. I'd rather spend comparable sum to repair an old deck, but at least it will be a piece of engineering from the time when they were really trying. I actually did. I rejected a fixed and tuned low-end Nakamichi that the repair guy was offering for the same price that I paid him to repair my mid-range machine from a lesser brand (no, not the Technics). As much as I wanted something like Nakamichi back in 1990s, I don't want to get caught owning one now, too passé for me.

Like your experience with a single Teac deck does not prove anything, my own feelings do not reflect the trend. And the trend is... let's read some capitalist news: "Sales of cassettes nearly doubled from 173,000 in 2020 to 343,000 in 2021, according to entertainment data tracker Luminate. With year-to-date sales of 215,000, the trend seems to be continuing in 2022." This was from July 1, so if I am reading this correctly, the projected yearly sales would be 430K, which is 25% more than in 2021, not a double growth like from 2020 to 2021.

The nostalgia train slows down as the passengers lose interest or fall off the wagon.
 
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There's about 20 guys that really care about wow and flutter, the rest are kids and adults that want a peek back to when cassette ruled the world on some of the most amazing audio gadgets made. Don't get me wrong, I have a full set of test tapes, a 3M 8100 A W&F Meter that might have been the best one every made but I only use that stuff when I'm geeking out doing some brain exercises, just like 40 years ago, I don't expect the majority of users to get that in-depth.

Obviously if your not having fun finding old used cassette tapes and firing them up, this is not the hobby for you. Sales figures show that there's a small demand, yea it's not earth shaking like 40 years ago but this is not a dead format and as long as tapes don't disintegrate, it will keep chugging along.

I've been enjoying all vintage audio equipment since the early 2000's when this forum first kicked off, back then you could find very nice audio for $4.99 at the local Goodwill Thrift Store, I've got tons of it to prove it. My friends all said the same thing, what do you want with that giant boat anchor? Home theatre is where it's at, and look the reciever only weighs 14 lbs but can run my whole system. The negative guys have always been around, I feel like making a prerecorded cassette neck chain, wearing it to ward off the nay-sayers.

Great videos vwestlife, I've been watching them for years!
 
So, after 40 years or wear and tear many of these old decks still perform better than new ones. This says enough about the new ones that - oh, Lordy! - come with a one-year warranty.

As I said above, your owning and testing one machine proves nothing exciting. It does not change the pitiful specs, it does not change the lack of features. If anything, it proves that the performance is all over the place with almost two times difference between two mechas of the same machine.

That is exactly my point above. $600 component deck is on the opposite end of the scale. If anything is going to move the needle it would be 21st century ghetto blasters, but as Techmoan has shown, the available machines are laughable hollow half-functioning imitations that copy the look of iconic models. I don't expect them getting better, I don't expect genuine new external styling and genuine engineering.

Anything is better than zero, and both vinyl and cassettes were pretty much at zero point twenty years ago, and NAC is the only manufacturer left.

Yeah, they could not complete ten orders they received because they have only five mechas of which only two kinda sorta satisfy their pitiful specs after careful hand picking, no wonder they are so expensive.

Thirty years ago I really wanted a good deck with great specs, with auto bias, reverse, Dolby S, etc, with good looks. I lusted for it. Modern decks are just a spit in a face. They are fakes. They are as hollow as the marble columns of Caesar Palace in Las Vegas, which are just thin-walled painted tins. I'd rather spend comparable sum to repair an old deck, but at least it will be a piece of engineering from the time when they were really trying. I actually did. I rejected a fixed and tuned low-end Nakamichi that the repair guy was offering for the same price that I paid him to repair my mid-range machine from a lesser brand (no, not the Technics). As much as I wanted something like Nakamichi back in 1990s, I don't want to get caught owning one now, too passé for me.

Like your experience with a single Teac deck does not prove anything, my own feelings do not reflect the trend. And the trend is... let's read some capitalist news: "Sales of cassettes nearly doubled from 173,000 in 2020 to 343,000 in 2021, according to entertainment data tracker Luminate. With year-to-date sales of 215,000, the trend seems to be continuing in 2022." This was from July 1, so if I am reading this correctly, the projected yearly sales would be 430K, which is 25% more than in 2021, not a double growth like from 2020 to 2021.

The nostalgia train slows down as the passengers lose interest or fall off the wagon.

A few things from a guy who grew up with cassettes and still owns some nice decks for nostalgic reasons.

Cassette is never coming back as more than a cool old oddity, the format has nothing today that other formats don't already kill -- portability, fidelity, convenience, reliability. The decks are far, far more complex to build than a TT is, thus there will be no boutique manufacturer renaissance as in TTs; it's not really that difficult to design and build a TT, cassettte is magnitudes higher in cost and complexity. The few decks still produced from legacy designs are very, very poor in comparison to units made when cassette was king (0.25% W&F is quite audible btw, W&F is one of the easiest things to hear); they must be made so, there is no money to be made at all any other way. There will never be quality chrome or metal tapes ever produced again, production capability was lost, trade secrets and formulae are all gone as well, there is zero money to be made producing new quality tape formulas unfortunately. NOS is the only way to get quality cassette tapes, and this will always be the case.

>>Nakamichi is passe
I don't even really understand this statement. Nak is one of the best reproducers ever for this format; are you saying being one of the best in hifi reproduction doesn't matter?

It's a fun format, it can sound really good on a properly specced vintage deck, but that's about it. Again, this is coming from a guy who just bought a box of tapes for more than more decks go for, so I do still have a love for this old format. Being realistic however, cassette will be the most difficult of all the vintage formats to keep alive, as the decks are complex, difficult to repair, full of plastic and other unobtanium that wears out or breaks. Such is life, cheers!
 
What revival? In and at my house Cassettes never left. I have some that are at least 40 yrs old and play great and others almost brand new that still sound and play fine.Have older Decks and some a few yrs newer that still play and sound good enough for me and really that's all that matters isn't it?Next you will all tell me R2R'S have left,nope sorry I have a few that still perform well and as far as Tapes that no problem either:)
 
Wrong. The new TEAC and TASCAM cassette decks are good-quality products. The mechanism is made of metal and the actual measured wow & flutter is comparable to many vintage decks. They implement DNR for playing Dolby B NR encoded tapes. And the actual measured frequency response is actually better than a vintage Denon deck from the 1980s:

I guess you picked a poor example for a comparison. Even my lowly Pioneer dual well deck, a CT-S99WR specs clobber the Teac/Tascam models you speak of and this Pioneer isnt even considered a very good deck.



New Type II chrome-equivalent tape is now being manufactured. So far the quality isn't as good as vintage Type II tape but they're still working on improving the formulation.

Proove it.

And most people using cassette tapes today don't mind a bit of background hiss -- it's part of the charm of the format, like the pops and clicks of vinyl. If you want audio with a totally silent background, that's why digital was invented!

Speak for yourself. I hate hiss and I don't hear any with my dbx encoded recordings made on my Yamaha decks.

Remember that when vinyl first started coming back in the late 2000s, you could buy cheap portable record players and expensive DJ and audiophile turntables, but not much in between. It took a while for a robust selection of good-quality entry-level and mid-range turntables to become available again. If the growth of cassette tapes continues (it may reach one million sold in the U.S. in 2022) then it will follow suit.

ProJect, Rega, Music Hall, and NAD to name a few were around back then and offered (still offer) the range from entry level to expensive unit

In fact, the new cassette decks that are available today are having trouble staying in stock because as each batch of them is shipped to retailers, they keep selling out. TASCAM even had to stop production of their CD/cassette combo deck for a while because they ran out of enough parts to make them!

Very small numbers still compared to even vinyl. The cassette revival doesn't even qualify as a niche, its that small. Even die hards like me who own vintage decks and scour the internet for NOS cassettes to record on KNOW that there is no cassette revial.

I suggest you check out tapeheads.net to get a better picture of what's going on in the market.
 
I think you need to clarify what "revival" means to you 3db.

I went from a time 20 years ago when people begged me to take the tape deck along with the other equipment, as a "freebie." Metal tapes went for .25 cents at the thrift or free from the garage sale. There was a time when Beanie Babies were worth more than cassette equipment. Now it's the opposite, there's several dozen new boombox designs, lot's of component decks and guys still making new media at an increasing rate. My tape decks have wildly exceded in value compared with my other audio equipment. Record stores are actually stocking new cassette releases.

While I don't see many component decks, I do see a ton of boomboxes in commercials and movies these days, yep even old Walkmans are showing up. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see the legitimate interest in the hobby, I know for a fact your paying much more for your internet finds than in years past.
 
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