Cassette Revival (again)

[perryinva]

@titanstats: We are each entitled to their opinion. I believe yours is preconceived based on whatever. So all the professional testing labs when cassettes were in their heyday that used NR, just ignored that NR makes them sound terrible? Sounds like just a “you” thing to me. I really don’t care how tapes made on Nakamichi sound on other makes of decks….I’m not playing them on other decks! I’ve got some 20+ perfectly calibrated Nakamichi decks. Any tape made on one sounds just as great on another. I don’t make live recordings, which is about the only place RTR excels, and as pointed out, no one else uses RTR for that either anymore.

 

[3db]

Oh god I give up. The question isn't if you can put it in your pocket -- why would I care about that at all? The question was about sound quality. Nobody bought a Nagra to use solely at low speed, that's for voice recording. Cassettes weren't used in studios for obvious reasons, they sound terrible and are full of noise comparatively speaking -- if they weren't, they'd have been used. Portastudios sound like lo-fi trash, so no they aren't useful unless you want a lo-fi effect, some people do.
Personally I still do use RTR for sheer audio quality, nothing else beats it IMO; if you like analog recordings they'll always be top of the food chain. Come on over one day and I'll demonstrate the difference.

The only noise generated by the cassette is the noise of the source that was captured during the recording. Other than that, its dead silent with no hiss.

 

[titanstats]

@titanstats: We are each entitled to their opinion. I believe yours is preconceived based on whatever. So all the professional testing labs when cassettes were in their heyday that used NR, just ignored that NR makes them sound terrible? Sounds like just a “you” thing to me. I really don’t care how tapes made on Nakamichi sound on other makes of decks….I’m not playing them on other decks! I’ve got some 20+ perfectly calibrated Nakamichi decks. Any tape made on one sounds just as great on another. I don’t make live recordings, which is about the only place RTR excels, and as pointed out, no one else uses RTR for that either anymore.

Great enjoy your cassettes and Dolby NR

The only noise generated by the cassette is the noise of the source that was captured during the recording. Other than that, its dead silent with no hiss.

Yes, cassettes are known for being dead silent, there is no such thing as tape noise. 1 7/8IPS on 1/8” tape is the cure for tape hiss.

Yes, I agree, and so did the vast majority of R2R consumers back at the onset of the 1980s apparently, when they switched over to cassette decks. Even without today's major difficulties with the format, any minor benefits then were less than those gained from shifting over to the much improved cassette decks for those consumers. When I think about it, the big advantage of R2R is in live recording (which most people are not engaged in), but professionally of course, R2R has been almost completely supplanted by digital. Now of course, if you were to obtain some of those higher speed prerecorded R2R tapes, I don't deny that there could be a little improvement in sound quality, but at what cost? Those tapes are uncommon and quite expensive. It's just not worth it to me to pay that much for a music album just for a little supposed improvement in the sound, and that is apart from the costs and difficulties of the R2R decks themselves. But don't get me wrong. I'm still an admirer of these machines.

The difference in sound quality isn’t subtle, but to each their own. I have cassettes as well, but they just for fun and nostalgia. Prerecorded cassettes are one step up from 8-tracks in the audio food chain IMO.

 

[3db]

Great enjoy your cassettes and Dolby NR



Yes, cassettes are known for being dead silent, there is no such thing as tape noise. 1 7/8IPS on 1/8” tape is the cure for tape hiss.

With properly calibrated decks, there is no hiss with either Dolby B or C. I prefer dbx myself which brings the S/N down to -98db. Good luck trying to hear tape hiss with that. Even the -70 to -77 db with Dolby C is also inaudable. Sounds like you had either crap or poorly maintained decks. Sounds like a you problem.

 

[3db]

@titanstats: We are each entitled to their opinion. I believe yours is preconceived based on whatever. So all the professional testing labs when cassettes were in their heyday that used NR, just ignored that NR makes them sound terrible? Sounds like just a “you” thing to me. I really don’t care how tapes made on Nakamichi sound on other makes of decks….I’m not playing them on other decks! I’ve got some 20+ perfectly calibrated Nakamichi decks. Any tape made on one sounds just as great on another. I don’t make live recordings, which is about the only place RTR excels, and as pointed out, no one else uses RTR for that either anymore.

I have 6 Yamaha decks and a dual well Pioneer deck and tapes recorded with dbx sounds great on the 6 equipped dbx decks. Tapes I recorded with either Dolby B or C sound great across all 7 decks.

 

[intro6]

Prerecorded cassettes are one step up from 8-tracks in the audio food chain IMO.

That depends. For a long time, like in the 1970s, prerecorded cassettes were generally inferior in quality to the LP of the same release. I remember pretty much avoiding prerecorded cassettes during that time and definitely preferring to record from my vinyl onto blank cassettes. So I guess that I was one of those "killing the music industry" back then which, unbelievably in hindsight, the music industry was actually making a big deal about during that period. Yes, cassette decks and blank cassettes were actually the nemesis of the music industry for a while back then! I believe they even sued the electronics industry over it but fortunately lost. Well anyway, later on at some point in the mid-1980s as cassettes boomed, the music industry finally did up their game regarding prerecorded cassette quality and they then pretty quickly really did start to sound good. I believe that A&M was the original instigator of this improvement but the rest of them very quickly followed suit. I still have a number of cassette albums from after that point of change and they still sound great, while the small number I have from before generally sound crappy in comparison.

 

[titanstats]

With properly calibrated decks, there is no hiss with either Dolby B or C. I prefer dbx myself which brings the S/N down to -98db. Good luck trying to hear tape hiss with that. Even the -70 to -77 db with Dolby C is also inaudable. Sounds like you had either crap or poorly maintained decks. Sounds like a you problem.

Yeah, it was a me problem.

This conversation has became ridiculous a while back, I don’t have much else to say lol. Cheers.

 

[titanstats]

That depends. For a long time, like in the 1970s, prerecorded cassettes were generally inferior in quality to the LP of the same release. I remember pretty much avoiding prerecorded cassettes during that time and definitely preferring to record from my vinyl onto blank cassettes. So I guess that I was one of those "killing the music industry" back then which, unbelievably in hindsight, the music industry was actually making a big deal about during that period. Yes, cassette decks and blank cassettes were actually the nemesis of the music industry for a while back then! I believe they even sued the electronics industry over it but fortunately lost. Well anyway, later on at some point in the mid-1980s as cassettes boomed, the music industry finally did up their game regarding prerecorded cassette quality and they then pretty quickly really did start to sound good. I believe that A&M was the original instigator of this improvement but the rest of them very quickly followed suit. I still have a number of cassette albums from after that point of change and they still sound great, while the small number I have from before generally sound crappy in comparison.

Even 30 odd years ago I found prerecorded cassettes to be poorly done and substandard to LPs, let alone CDs — time has not improved them. They’re fine for nostalgia and background music, but that’s about all I’d use ‘em for. Different strokes as they say, cheers.

 

[3db]

Yeah, it was a me problem, cassette is the finest format ever made with greater specs, and a lower noise floor than CD. You should hear my microcassette player with DBX, Dolby C and HX cranked on, it’s even better than a live performance!

This conversation has became ridiculous a while back, I don’t have much else to say lol. Cheers.

Yeah, it was a me problem, cassette is the finest format ever made with greater specs, and a lower noise floor than CD. You should hear my microcassette player with DBX, Dolby C and HX cranked on, it’s even better than a live performance!

This conversation has became ridiculous a while back, I don’t have much else to say lol. Cheers.

That's quite apparent.

 

[perryinva]

I have a Yamaha KX-1200 and my original K-960, bought in 1980, both with dbx. I even have a dozen+ dbx LPs, and outboard dbx 224s. Definitely amazing NR with many types of music. Just not as convenient with the majority of my decks being Nakamichi. Well executed Dolby C works great for me. Not CD silent, but certainly far less than LP groove noise.

Of course, being an old fart of 65 helps too.

 

[56RETROGRADE]

Wrong. The new TEAC and TASCAM cassette decks are good-quality products. The mechanism is made of metal and the actual measured wow & flutter is comparable to many vintage decks. They implement DNR for playing Dolby B NR encoded tapes. And the actual measured frequency response is actually better than a vintage Denon deck from the 1980s:

New Type II chrome-equivalent tape is now being manufactured. So far the quality isn't as good as vintage Type II tape but they're still working on improving the formulation. And most people using cassette tapes today don't mind a bit of background hiss -- it's part of the charm of the format, like the pops and clicks of vinyl. If you want audio with a totally silent background, that's why digital was invented!

Remember that when vinyl first started coming back in the late 2000s, you could buy cheap portable record players and expensive DJ and audiophile turntables, but not much in between. It took a while for a robust selection of good-quality entry-level and mid-range turntables to become available again. If the growth of cassette tapes continues (it may reach one million sold in the U.S. in 2022) then it will follow suit.

In fact, the new cassette decks that are available today are having trouble staying in stock because as each batch of them is shipped to retailers, they keep selling out. TASCAM even had to stop production of their CD/cassette combo deck for a while because they ran out of enough parts to make them!

Thanks for your insights into the state of the cassette market and your u tube reviews of the Tascam and Teac decks. I find your other vids very informative and interesting.

 

[Adam S]

Tape lives in this house.

 

[Adam S]

It's revived my love of cassettes without a doubt. I'm around 3 years back in after 30 years but It's got its own sound you adjust too and good tape is good but it's just another rabbit hole for me with the finding, repairing searching for extinct parts, cleaning, tweaking and waiting for the next find.

 

[perryinva]

That’s the truth for many of us. There is enough love of that sound and nostalgia that I have months of backlog of customers that pay considerable amounts to have their decks restored to their former glory, despite snobs that consider them one step above an 8 track.

 

[oldvinyldude]

As I have aged and my hearing as well, I have found more tolerance for format limitations. I have not developed my listening acuity to the point that I can only hear limitations, as I sense some have, and I am happy for that. I have a large collection of cassettes and 8 tracks, and I can enjoy most of them. There are some definite dogs that bark at my ears so much they must go outside (dumpster)

 

[intro6]

That’s the truth for many of us. There is enough love of that sound and nostalgia that I have months of backlog of customers that pay considerable amounts to have their decks restored to their former glory, despite snobs that consider them one step above an 8 track.

Forget these snobs. All that matters is that cassettes are a continuing, self-sustaining medium - a niche that may even be growing slowly. Sure, their glory days are long gone and will never return, but that doesn't mean they don't have a cool factor, at least among certain people. I'll daresay they're even iconic, having seen images of them here and there in the current culture.