Cassette Revival (again)

[titanstats]

I think you need to clarify what "revival" means to you 3db.

I went from a time 20 years ago when people begged me to take the tape deck along with the other equipment, as a "freebie." Metal tapes went for .25 cents at the thrift or free from the garage sale. There was a time when Beanie Babies were worth more than cassette equipment. Now it's the opposite, there's several dozen new boombox designs, lot's of component decks and guys still making new media at an increasing rate. My tape decks have wildly exceded in value compared with my other audio equipment. Record stores are actually stocking new cassette releases.

While I don't see many component decks, I do see a ton of boomboxes in commercials and movies these days, yep even old Walkmans are showing up. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see the legitimate interest in the hobby, I know for a fact your paying much more for your internet finds than in years past.

Yes and no, there has been an uptick in interest, but that's not hard when you're already at the bottom as you said. There will never be enough money in the cassette niche for a manufacturer such as Pioneer, Sony etc. to ever release another quality cassette deck. Also as much as prices are up, they're only up on some pieces, being mostly high end or to match collectable gear stacks.

I could go out tomorrow and buy a beautiful, functioning late model TOTL 3-head deck with excellent specs for about $70 bucks ($50USD), but I don't need another one, nor do many others as it's been sitting for sale for about a month now. Not a sign to me of huge interest in a format. Aside from Naks, vintage silver Pioneer, 70s Marantz and a very few others, cassette decks don't sell for very much money. I own a bunch of 3-head decks still because I like to try out different ones once in a while, and it's not really worth my time to sell them again so into the storeroom they go.

 

[Bosphrous]

I don't care what others are doing. I think cassettes and cassette decks is one of the coolest things in the world.
If others can groove on cassettes too, then all the better, but LP's are too much bother and CD's sound like broken glass.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

Yes and no, there has been an uptick in interest, but that's not hard when you're already at the bottom as you said. There will never be enough money in the cassette niche for a manufacturer such as Pioneer, Sony etc. to ever release another quality cassette deck. Also as much as prices are up, they're only up on some pieces, being mostly high end or to match collectable gear stacks.

I could go out tomorrow and buy a beautiful, functioning late model TOTL 3-head deck with excellent specs for about $70 bucks ($50USD), but I don't need another one, nor do many others as it's been sitting for sale for about a month now. Not a sign to me of huge interest in a format. Aside from Naks, vintage silver Pioneer, 70s Marantz and a very few others, cassette decks don't sell for very much money. I own a bunch of 3-head decks still because I like to try out different ones once in a while, and it's not really worth my time to sell them again so into the storeroom they go.

A TOTL from what company, Kraco?

3 head decks from reputable companies are not cheap anymore, unless you're lucky. I recently picked up a very schveet Teac C-3RX for $175, but that's not what they typically demand, I got lucky.

 

[3db]

I think you need to clarify what "revival" means to you 3db.

I went from a time 20 years ago when people begged me to take the tape deck along with the other equipment, as a "freebie." Metal tapes went for .25 cents at the thrift or free from the garage sale. There was a time when Beanie Babies were worth more than cassette equipment. Now it's the opposite, there's several dozen new boombox designs, lot's of component decks and guys still making new media at an increasing rate. My tape decks have wildly exceded in value compared with my other audio equipment. Record stores are actually stocking new cassette releases.

While I don't see many component decks, I do see a ton of boomboxes in commercials and movies these days, yep even old Walkmans are showing up. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see the legitimate interest in the hobby, I know for a fact your paying much more for your internet finds than in years past.

Revival to means the under lying infrastructure spinning up to produce quality decks to a minimum quality of vintage entry level decks (those new Teac and Tascam are below the vintage entry level decks), manufacturers producing new quality cassettes, Dolby allowing the use of its noise reduction facilities, etc.
Yamaha, Technics, Sony, Pioneer, Denon, NAD, and NAK are not producing any decks. TDK, Maxell, and FUJI are not producing any new cassettes. No infrastructure means no revival.

 

[intro6]

the comeback of cassette is the height of ridiculousness.

I agree, but that doesn't mean some sort of revival can't be happening, which I believe it is. I think that cassette is finding it's place as a niche and will continue to be with us for a long time.

Unless you were highly fortunate enough to have a Nakamichi, especially a Dragon, trying to use it with Dolby B or C usually dulled the highs too much. Even without Dolby, the highs may still be too dulled.

You don't need a Nakamichi to derive great sound and enjoyment from a cassette deck. While I'm definitely not knocking Nakamichi's and other higher end decks, I have long enjoyed wonderful sound from my more modest vintage cassette decks, although I'm not talking cheapo s@#! here either. I also disagree about Dolby too. While Dolby C never added anything worthwhile for me, I have a good number of mixtapes that I had made using Type II cassettes (mostly Maxell) with Dolby B and they still sound fantastic to this very day. The highs sound just fine to me too.

Cassettes always sucked more than vinyl ever did.

Once again, I disagree. To me, cassettes work wonderfully alongside vinyl, just as they do with CDs or even other sources. If you're talking about blank cassettes, it is really a symbiotic relationship. Then of course, there are prerecorded cassettes, which opens up a whole different area, especially if you have any interest in indie or other more obscure music or else you're interested in collecting vintage stuff.

practical way to play vinyl in your car.

That was always a bad idea! Somebody did try it though, way back when.

The negative guys have always been around

Yeah, and they were saying the same thing about vinyl some time back.

Cassettes have no "wow" factor for those who do not have fond memories for them.

They'll always have a "wow" factor for me!

And most people using cassette tapes today don't mind a bit of background hiss -- it's part of the charm of the format, like the pops and clicks of vinyl.

The issue of hiss has always been greatly exagerated by detractors. With any halfway decent cassette deck using decent cassettes, hiss is actually very low and even more so when using Dolby. These detractors must be using really cheapo gear to prove their point. I can really only take this complaint seriously if made by a hardcore classical aficionado.

 

[Late Boomer]

>>Nakamichi is passe
I don't even really understand this statement. Nak is one of the best reproducers ever for this format; are you saying being one of the best in hifi reproduction doesn't matter?

A former school princess grew old living her life with someone else. She may still look and dance better than her peers, but her skin is not as smooth, her mind is not as lucid, and her bones are not as strong as before. She can break an ankle at any given moment. She's a granny now. No lust for grannies.

 

[titanstats]

A TOTL from what company, Kraco?

3 head decks from reputable companies are not cheap anymore, unless you're lucky. I recently picked up a very schveet Teac C-3RX for $175, but that's not what they typically demand, I got lucky.

Nope, nice JVC unit that I even placed a link to in D&S last week, still no takers. My perfectly functioning 3-head Nikko I picked up last week was also sub $100; I won’t pay more than $100 for a deck, and I don’t buy 2-head units. Cassette decks are not that popular, save for the ones I mentioned previously.

Of course YMMV, but I can’t imagine the market is that much different here, it’s basically the same for all other audio. I’d be much happier if people were listing high end RTR for peanuts, but they aren’t.

 

[titanstats]

I agree, but that doesn't mean some sort of revival can't be happening, which I believe it is. I think that cassette is finding it's place as a niche and will continue to be with us for a long time.

You don't need a Nakamichi to derive great sound and enjoyment from a cassette deck. While I'm definitely not knocking Nakamichi's and other higher end decks, I have long enjoyed wonderful sound from my more modest vintage cassette decks, although I'm not talking cheapo s@#! here either. I also disagree about Dolby too. While Dolby C never added anything worthwhile for me, I have a good number of mixtapes that I had made using Type II cassettes (mostly Maxell) with Dolby B and they still sound fantastic to this very day. The highs sound just fine to me too.



Once again, I disagree. To me, cassettes work wonderfully alongside vinyl, just as they do with CDs or even other sources. If you're talking about blank cassettes, it is really a symbiotic relationship. Then of course, there are prerecorded cassettes, which opens up a whole different area, especially if you have any interest in indie or other more obscure music or else you're interested in collecting vintage stuff.



That was always a bad idea! Somebody did try it though, way back when.



Yeah, and they were saying the same thing about vinyl some time back.



They'll always have a "wow" factor for me!



The issue of hiss has always been greatly exagerated by detractors. With any halfway decent cassette deck using decent cassettes, hiss is actually very low and even more so when using Dolby. These detractors must be using really cheapo gear to prove their point. I can really only take this complaint seriously if made by a hardcore classical aficionado.

I’d agree with most of your points tbh, save for any revival past what we’ve already experienced. Both cassette and open reel were abandoned by manufacturers decades ago when digital became king. Manufacturing ability for both new decks and tape were mostly lost, though there are still a couple of RTR formulations available, but it’s always touch and go.

Once you lose the ability to manufacture, things are set. Using RTR as an example, there have been several attempts to sell newly built machines, but because there is no scale to the manufacturing process, the decks are prohibitively expensive ($20k - $50k) yet are still inferior to units produced decades ago at a fraction of the price.

Just imagine the cost of trying to manufacture a unit such as the CT-F950 today, it’s utterly impossible.

 

[ra7c7er]

The cassette comeback is mostly based on price. Vinyl has gotten a bit expensive and cassettes are easily available and cheap. So are most cassette decks. Sounds pretty similar to the resurgence of vintage vinyl 15 years ago.

 

[Hajidub]

The cassette comeback is mostly based on price. Vinyl has gotten a bit expensive and cassettes are easily available and cheap. So are most cassette decks. Sounds pretty similar to the resurgence of vintage vinyl 15 years ago.

****, I normally opt for the vinyl reissue because the tape I want, of the same album, is too expensive. I agree the new decks are not close to great, but there are so many old decks still in the wild. Anyone that can't agree tapes are making a surge, obviously don't peruse Tapeheadcity.com. I've been buying reissues from them when they were selling out of this guys basement in New Jersey. Now he'll drop 500 new reissue releases (100-1000 per) every Tuesday and they'll sell out in 5 mins. When I started buying from them, tapes were standard $4.99, now they're $8-75 and still selling out every week.

 

[ra7c7er]

****, I normally opt for the vinyl reissue because the tape I want, of the same album, is too expensive. I agree the new decks are not close to great, but there are so many old decks still in the wild. Anyone that can't agree tapes are making a surge, obviously don't peruse Tapeheadcity.com. I've been buying reissues from them when they were selling out of this guys basement in New Jersey. Now he'll drop 500 new reissue releases (100-1000 per) every Tuesday and they'll sell out in 5 mins. When I started buying from them, tapes were standard $4.99, now they're $8-75 and still selling out every week.

Obviously limited edition tapes break the norm. I know all about Tapeheadcity and I know all about the bots that buy out most releases in minutes. Not to mention those of 100 releases wind up with 50-60 on ebay, discogs, and in stores at twice the price within a week. An 8-10 dollar tape is expensive in the world of tapes but not when a CD is 20 and vinyl is 35. Tape is cheapest medium and that is why you are seeing a comeback. Not everyone cares about the highest fidelity some just want the music.

I like tapes too mind you I'm not denigrating them in any way. I recently bought Radkey's 9 Lives At The 100 Club on tape because the CD is $25 (29 on discogs right now) if you can find even find it. 5% of my music collection is tapes and it's growing constantly. They are small, cheap, and fun. It's easy to build up a nice collection of tapes both new and old for a fraction of the cost of CD or vinyl.

 

[Hajidub]

Obviously limited edition tapes break the norm. I know all about Tapeheadcity and I know all about the bots that buy out most releases in minutes. Not to mention those of 100 releases wind up with 50-60 on ebay, discogs, and in stores at twice the price within a week. An 8-10 dollar tape is expensive in the world of tapes but not when a CD is 20 and vinyl is 35. Tape is cheapest medium and that is why you are seeing a comeback. Not everyone cares about the highest fidelity some just want the music.

I like tapes too mind you I'm not denigrating them in any way. I recently bought Radkey's 9 Lives At The 100 Club on tape because the CD is $25 (29 on discogs right now) if you can find even find it. 5% of my music collection is tapes and it's growing constantly. They are small, cheap, and fun. It's easy to build up a nice collection of tapes both new and old for a fraction of the cost of CD or vinyl.

Saw Radkey back when they were 17y/o, 2 mins from my house. They had $10 vinyl for sale and I nabbed one.

 

[Late Boomer]

I never cared for pre-recorded tapes, the beauty of tape was that it was a recordable and re-recordable medium. Here are some mixtapes I recorded in the last two years.

Yet, recently I have amassed up to a hundred pre-recorded cassettes just because there was a huge warehouse nearby which had thousands or LPs, cassettes, CDs, DVDs and videotapes. I bought a lot of cassettes for a dollar each, sometimes I would get six or seven for a fiver. The warehouse had been closed and all the collection has been sold wholesale, I suppose after the owner had died, he was old and had a couple of strokes, he barely moved.

Thankfully, digital streaming and downloads (for the songs that I want to have on my own media) freed content from physical media. I've been streaming music since late 1990s. WinAmp playing a ShoutCast station into StreamRipper was my method of acquiring songs before Napster. StreamRipper had a nifty feature "rip to separate files", so compliant broadcasts that signal start and and of a track were conveniently ripped into their respective files and were correctly named.

I do not buy new content on physical media. These new cassettes mean nothing to me and feel as fake and hollow as the new decks. But hey, it seems that there are 500 souls in the country who care for latest releases on the ancient medium. These tapes are not Type II with 120 μs EQ, and there is no Dolby NR, but at least they can claim that they are digitally mastered, right?

This guy sells 500 a day, not in a week. Floppy discs. Yay, another revival!

 

[ra7c7er]

Saw Radkey back when they were 17y/o, 2 mins from my house. They had $10 vinyl for sale and I nabbed one.

That's awesome both of the times I've seen them (pre-lucifer) they were out of vinyl One of the times they didn't have CDs either the CD from the show I did buy was stolen years ago in a apartment breakin. I miss the days of 10 dollar local vinyl.

 

[ra7c7er]

Yet, recently I have amassed up to a hundred pre-recorded cassettes just because there was a huge warehouse nearby which had thousands or LPs, cassettes, CDs, DVDs and videotapes. I bought a lot of cassettes for a dollar each, sometimes I would get six or seven for a fiver. The warehouse had been closed and all the collection has been sold wholesale, I suppose after the owner had died, he was old and had a couple of strokes, he barely moved.

Didn't happen to be in Mt. Vernon Illinois did it? I've got a story about walking into a warehouse thinking I was there buying a small collection and finding the remains of a store, multiple radio stations promotional material, and a mail-order company. I always wondered what happened to everything after I filled my car and left. All I know is the owner died a few months after I was there. I could have filled my car 1000 times and probably still left more then I took.

 

[DesertRatt]

I've been enjoying cassette format for a couple years. I came in through the back door. I wanted to do home recording (guitar/vocal) and i wasn't keen on DAWs (yet), so I wound up with a handful of 4-track portastudio decks. Then for playback iacquired half a dozen cassette decks. Before i knew it i was buying pre recorded cassette music.

The SQ of cassette is unique. Not like vinyl, and not like CD. I find it to be lush and easy to listen to. A little more opaque than CD, a little better balanced than LP. It's not a gourmet meal, but more like comfort food.

I loved the fact that i could buy unopened Opera box sets for about $5 each! And for some reason i like handling the media--it's got a nice physicality to it. I also love the machinery.. a nice deck is a work of mechanical art.

It's another fun aspect of the hobby. Like everything else it has it's drawbacks, but it's a fun, arcane plaything.

 

[gizzyman47]

I feel that the more options we have as music lovers, whether it cd's, Lp's, streaming, tape's it's all good. I have a modest collection of cassettes and a Pioneer CT-F1250 player that I haven't used in quite some time. I like having it and being able to use it if I choose. I wouldn't use it for critical listening but for just having decent sounding music played though a very cool vintage deck.
Don't know if cassettes are making a comeback but I have noticed a renewed interest at the record store that I patronage. Hope they do though. I love seeing younger folks enthusiasm, "who never got to experience the formats that we did growing" up discover how cool the gear was we took for granted.

 

[Late Boomer]

I wouldn't use it for critical listening

I never have understood the concept of "critical listening" unless one is an orchestra director or a recording studio engineer. I cannot imagine a regular music lover thinking, "today I am going to critically listen to that piece, in the best quality I can obtain" or "today I don't give a crap for the quality, I want all the pops and clicks and wobble and hiss, just in the mood for it". Thankfully, with digital I can have my cake and eat it too.

I love seeing younger folks enthusiasm, "who never got to experience the formats that we did growing" up discover how cool the gear was we took for granted.

It was cool only because everything else was less cooler, like daddy's vinyl records, looking like something straight from 1920s, non-portable and non-recordable. Reel to reel tape was slightly better, recordable and somewhat portable, but nowhere near the size of a walkman. If I had digital audio on solid state media back then, I would never have touched cassettes with a ten foot pole.

 

[ra7c7er]

I never have understood the concept of "critical listening" unless one is an orchestra director or a recording studio engineer. I cannot imagine a regular music lover thinking, "today I am going to critically listen to that piece, in the best quality I can obtain" or "today I don't give a crap for the quality, I want all the pops and clicks and wobble and hiss, just in the mood for it".

Genuinely made me laugh out loud. That's how I think some people are when reading posts on this forum.

 

[DesertRatt]

I forgot to mention----I like making mix-tapes too! Putting on a 90-minute tape when I'm working or putting around the house is nice.