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CDX1-1412 VS DE-120

Daveintn

Daveintn

AK Subscriber
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Recently B&C ran out of DE-120's. I am hoping this does not mean we are going back to the days of interrupted supply but where ever you go now you see out of stock on these. B&C says they are on a shipping container and were supposed to be here by the end of February but as of Wednesday they can't even tell me where the shipping container is. And Parts Express is out of various resistors, AGAIN :rant:

In the mean time I have been asked if I have tried the Celestion CDX1-1412 by various people. Never much thought about it until now as running out of DE-120's is really really aggravating. So I thought it was time to see if the Celestion would be a viable replacement for the DE-120. Feedback from some indicates they are good. Sent a set off to Claude and he ran curves on both and they are so close as to be nearly identical. And they are in stock! So, if you have tried the Celestions out I want to hear from you about them and where you used them especially if you have also used the DE-120 also. Now all I have to do is get them back from Claude and find a speaker to try them out in. Curves are great indicators but ears make the final decisions.

Here are the curves from Claude with black being Celestion and red the DE-120's.
blackCelestion_DE-120redFP.jpg
 
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What I’m getting back is that they both sound great but have different character. The few I’ve talked to, including Boxler, are having a hard time putting it into words. Both great, just different. One person said the 1412 sounded a little more “Klipschy”, which is interesting.

Mike has developed a new network that works with both of these drivers, since neither are truly “drop-in” with any of the Heritage networks. In-network response shows increasing output with frequency and rough summation (summing error).
 
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May I ask what horn was used for these measurements? I've found that the larger the horn the louder the lower frequencies.

These measurements were taken on a Z-Bracket type horn. White is the Celestion driver with no network. Green is using a Universal type high pass. Red is using a Universal type high pass with a 2uf capacitor across the driver. My new network takes advantage of the 4500hz or so crossing point.

Mike

Celestion Tests.jpg
 
SMAHL V2. Which Zee bracket horn? Crites, Klipsch cast boss or Klipsch sheet metal standoffs?
 
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It's too bad the DE10 is so big. I reran measurements using Claude's parameters and got nearly identical results. Red is the CDX1-1412, Green is the DE120, Blue is the DE10. Without a high pass network they are all very similar.

DE10 DE120 Celestion Raw.jpg

I find the DE120 to be more musical compared to the CDX1-1412, which is a little more in your face. Both sound great, just a little different. I wonder if Roy picked a Celestion tweeter because it's closer to the K77M vs the B&C drivers???

Mike
 
This is the CDX1-1412 stuck on the back of a K79(non tractrix) horn in my KP250.
Stock KP-2.5b network values with new Dayton caps with the addition of a 1.3uF cap across the tweeter output.

1/12 octave smoothing to help compare it to the other curves posted in this thread.
Please ignore the plot below 6kHz as that is not germane to the present discussion

CDX1-1412-on-K79-horn-in-KP250.jpg
 
I wonder how the CDX07-1075 would compare?
Or even the B&C DE7 or DE5?

With constraint of the K77 sized opening, you should be able to get better control of directivity with a horn designed with a smaller throat, also the possibility for a smoother opening at the mouth.
 
I threw together a high pass to the CDX1-1412 using Josh's network. I only had a 1.8uf shunt capacitor, but it still amazes how much the capacitor changes the FR. Blue is without the capacitor, Red is with it. Josh, as I understand it, you didn't feel the need to attenuate the tweeter. Perhaps this is why?

KPT-250 Crossover.jpg
 
Mike,

If I get silly and apply 1/2 octave smoothing you can see that it matches the overall level of the midrange very well.
CDX1-1412-on-K79-horn-in-KP250-smoothed.jpg
The rising response above 9kHz in purple is without the additional cap.


This was the CDX1-1412 on the K79 horn using my DSP for the highpass at 4500Hz(I think), with no other drivers in the mix.
Measured at 1meter.
CDX1-1412-on-K79-Horn-DSP-High-pass.jpg

One thing I've noticed is that I don't seem to be seeing the same peak and subsequent rolloff at around 18.5kHz.
 
Invidiosulus said:
One thing I've noticed is that I don't seem to be seeing the same peak and subsequent rolloff at around 18.5kHz.
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I wonder if if this has to do with variations in the drivers. Here are plots of my two drivers. The Red is the one I've been posting. They are almost identical up to 18khz then begin to differ. Yours may just happen to measure flatter in that range???

Celestion A B.jpg
 
Gigantic said:
as was I. It seems you've been away from the midwest so long that you no longer recognize dry humor. North Cackalacky has turned your mind to mush! ;)
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In the rural areas in NC, it is like Lightning McQueen being in Radiator Springs in the movie Cars.
 
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