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Changing it Up! Part Deux

Well done, Dan. You have come a long way in this hobby, my friend. Your comments are, in my opinion, dead on.

This room is so small that any dual concentric driver that I am aware of, that presents a realistic picture of music, would probably overdrive the room. There is the Tannoy Autograph Mini, and I have listened to it. It was impressive for a mini. I have listened to some of those classic Tannoys and they do damn near everything right. On the business end of a top shelf valve amp there is little one could do to beat them...besides DeVore 0/96's perhaps.

Good ideas! If only I had the living room rather than my little cube of a room.
 
Art K. said:
I appreciate the recommendation. I sure do like Dynaudio speakers. What is the difference between the speakers you are recommending and the Dynaudio's I presently own?
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You know what? I don't have the hands-on experience with the Excite line. I've had one person I consider credible tell me the old style tweeters are more liquid and detailed. Realizing that doesn't exactly put me in a position to be making a recommendation, eh? :scratch2:
 
I agree with Komoyuki and Cubdog on their suggestion of Fritz Speakers. Might be worth a call to him. He's a great fella to talk to and is hellbent on customer satisfaction.

Steven
 
Art K. said:
Well done, Dan. You have come a long way in this hobby, my friend. Your comments are, in my opinion, dead on.

This room is so small that any dual concentric driver that I am aware of, that presents a realistic picture of music, would probably overdrive the room. There is the Tannoy Autograph Mini, and I have listened to it. It was impressive for a mini. I have listened to some of those classic Tannoys and they do damn near everything right. On the business end of a top shelf valve amp there is little one could do to beat them...besides DeVore 0/96's perhaps.

Good ideas! If only I had the living room rather than my little cube of a room.
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Thanks, Art! I appreciate the kind words.

It's fun to discuss options on a forum, but at the end of the day you have to get what you think is going to work best in your situation.

If a larger Tannoy would simply not work, then my vote would probably go to ProAc. If the Tannoy 609 does not work for me in my room then I am perfectly content to stick with my Tablettes. These are the best speakers I have ever owned and I've owned quite a few. I just love the midrange presence they offer, and the life they breathe into music.

The Audio Note AX2 as well, is simply superb sounding, although limited due to their size.

However, in all these years I have never really heard Spendor...by most counts a great speaker as well. I doubt you can go wrong with them.

Finally, Reference 3A may be another speaker to consider.
 
Tannoy Definition DC8 - these are in my local Hi-Fi showroom and I'm hoping to give them a listen soon when I take a friend shopping for interconnects. I've auditioned the DC6SE and I was in love with those.

 
It's a little difficult to pin down what you're after because you've given a few very different likes and at different price points. I believe the Trenner and Freidl ART speakers are over $5000.

About the 30 day home trials - a lot of companies that don't advertise that they do these things will give you home trails (you may be on the hook for shipping if you return them - but hell these days that could still be cheaper than gas to a dealer and back - or close enough). So all you need to do is email and ask dealers about trying them at home. For example I know Audio Note dealers who do this.

You have a small room. Given your budget and looks requirements why not consider the Audio Note K/LX or K/Spe? These are $3,096 and $3,715 respectively. The only difference is the internal wiring of copper and silver - I'd recommend the copper in non Audio Note systems and it's cheaper. As much as I like the AX Two the K is a better speaker and it's a much nicer speaker in looks and finish and quality of wood.

It seems to me that it would fit the looks department. With it's 8 inch woofer and sealed cabinet you'll get better than 50hz - the speakers are paper woofers with foam surrounds and is air choked - the ferro-fluid the drivers come with is removed by Audio Note. It's an acoustic-suspension infinite baffle design and is happy with 5 watts. It's bigger than the ART - it's nearly the size of the Reference 3a MM De Capo. But the Decapo needs tons of space around it which is difficult in a small room. The K can be shoved in the corners. It sounds more neutral the De Capo.

Furthermore, to go with the looks aspect - you have a choice of 20 different finishes in the K, J and E models (most makers offer 2-4) - it doesn't use cheap ass looking MDF but instead is 13 ply no void Russian Birch - furniture grade material.

See examples:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mortenteinum/6165368072/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/richy_max/8000343650/in/photostream/
http://audioconsult.dk/index.php?page=brugtliste
http://www.luxurie.me/audio-note-an-k-loudspeaker-pair/ (Personally I like this finish best in person - I auditioned this AN K/LX here in Hong Kong).
Another finish http://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-note-uk-system and
maple http://audiofederation.com/blog/archives/633

I'd suggest used K's but older ones like the ones I had used rubber surrounds which doesn't sound as good as foam.

There is also the J/LX which retails for $4,644 which will work in small/medium sized rooms. http://decoaudio.com/deco_audio_speakers2.html
http://hi-fi-avenue.blogspot.hk/2011_07_01_archive.html

In general Dynaudio offers a good amount of bass and I don't think you want to end up gaining in one place and then possibly losing bass. It's tough to live without something you are used to having.

Loved the Trenner and Freidl RA Box - one of the very best speakers I've heard. Unfortunately in 2010 it was around $25,000.

I am always amused when simple paper drivers and a silk dome tweeter in an undamped box lays the boots to berrylium/diamond tweeters and kevlar and or ceramic/aluminum woofers with techno-babble out the wazoo.
 
The ART is $4200 (give or take) I believe. But do read the first post where I posed the question of whether I should stick with the current budget or save more. My inclination is to stick with the original budget of 2k +/- just a few nickels. I just can't see spending more at this point. So at this point I think it's safe to say that I'm going to eliminate the higher T&F's. They are simply outside of my budget.

I would be more interested in AN speakers if it weren't for the foam surrounds. They certainly are pretty.
 
botrytis said:
I prefer the KEF-style than the Tannoy style of coincident driver, but that is me.

Art - what are you leaning towards - ProAcs are nice also.
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Still leaning toward the Spendor's and don't laugh, Harbeth P3ESR's. I let mine go because although they were good with the NAD C326BEE and Rega Brio-R they had lost the magic that I experienced with them and my Sonneteer amp...well guess what, I have a Sonneteer amp again...hmm.

Another consideration in my room is that I have media cabinets on all of the walls. So a 9x10 room really only has room to place the speakers about 5 or 6 ft apart...any larger speaker cabinet just doesn't work. It's a bear of a room.
 
MikeCh said:
Art, you don't own speakers long enough to experience foam rot.
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But I have, Mike. There was life before audio forums. For me anyway.

There will come a time when I move on to another hobby and just listen to music like I did before.
 
Art K. said:
But I have, Mike. There was life before audio forums. For me anyway.

There will come a time when I move on to another hobby and just listen to music like I did before.
Click to expand...


You are right, I don't know you before the forums so if your goal is a "forever" speaker, non-foam surrounds would be the ideal target.

FWIW, I too have only non-foam surround loudspeakers in my possession so I can understand your want.

Mike
 
My wife and I are in the process of making a decision as to whether we keep this house for the balance or move on and it appears that we have all but made up our mind to stay here (we are soon to close on a refi). That means this room is it for a dedicated listening space. So that is one reason for the tiny speaker requirement.
 
Where do you live? The foam will go 20 years and is about $100 to refoam. Rubber sounds worse.
 
Where I live is right under my join date. Rubber sounds worse is a very general statement and not true. I've owned plenty of speakers with foam surrounds that didn't measure up to my present speakers. You like AN and that is clear. I don't have an AN dealer nearby that is also clear. If I do AN has made it difficult for me to find them. I would like to add the AN speakers (that you have recommended, in my budget) to my audition list. Doesn't appear to be possible. Without being able to listen to them I will scratch them off my list.
 
Art I replied on my phone which was running out of battery so it was arather abrupt answer. Foam rot is a concern only in very humid climates (not just rainy ones) and foam will easily last 20+ year on the west coast - I'm from BC - so you and I are safe. California, Oregon, Washington. If you lived in Hong Kong where it's 90%+ humidity for 5 months straight then you would still get 5-10 years. Since Audio Note sells mroe product in Hong Kong and Singapore than anywhere else - I think it's a concern not to be concerned about.

I own Wharfedale's flagship speakers and the rubber surrounds frayed after about 12 years. And they no longer make the speakers and I doubt I can get an exact match for them. Something that is more iportant to consider than refoaming - the poor sap on audioasylum who had his PSB speakers for 4 years and the cabinet came apart - nope could not help him because they no longer make the cabinet - even under warranty - tough luck!


The guy phoned and phoned and was ignored UNTIL he raised a huge stink on Audio Asylum and they FINALLY caved in and gave him a replacement current model. Problem is replacement current models are not always better than the older one. If I had a Paradigm 100V2 I sure as hell would not want the piece of utter crap V3 that replaced it. I want to company to have parts for what I bought and loved or I will at least hope to be prepared for the "sorry we don't make those tweeters anymore" routine and then when they do find a replacement they charge more for the tweeter than the speakers originally cost.


As for the rubber commentary - it goes to comparing the same speaker both with rubber and with foam. Foam flexes, rubber is stiffer. The AN K used to come in rubber - it sounds worse than the foam surround.

Peter Q never wanted to use rubber but at the time the driver company would only sell foam in 500 pc orders and it's not their main speaker sale so he went with rubber. It's a pretty big difference. Rubber is not impervious to humidity either - I have plenty of rubber bands in my classroom holding papers together - left for 6 weeks have come back and the rubber bands have split or stuck themselves to the paper and have to be broken to be removed. Foam is pretty cheap to replace - will the rubber be?

The best reason is the "I can't audition" reason. It makes no sense whatsoever to buy a speaker you can't hear first.

Being in Oregon you're kind of between some major major cities if I'm correct - Seattle and L.A./San Fran

That said AN dealers have exploded all over the place all around the world. There is one in Seattle
Seattle Hi-Fi
by appointment
Auburn, WA
Burt Goodman info@seattlehifi.com
253.737.7407


Deetes Sound Room
5825 Manzanita Avenue #4
Carmichael, CA
Deetes Andersen deetessound@hotmail.com
916.334.7000

True Sound
(dealer, and authorized Audio Note service center)
136 Kennedy Avenue
Campbell, CA
Nick Gowan gowan@tsound.com
408.370.7578

Dealer list from site http://www.audionote.co.uk/distributor/dist_home_01.shtml

Take a vacation to Victoria British Columbia - you drive to Seattle and take a ferry right to Victoria. Beautiful - so much to do - great live music, great food, and Soundhounds - You can listen to Audio Note and Devore and Harbeth and Dynaudio back to back to back to back on SS gear or tubes or SETs. E-mail them ahead of time and tell them Richard recommended you and they may give you a deal - even on the DeVores. With the US dollar bouncing back you can probably get it cheaper there and cover some of your expense. Canadian hotels are considerably cheaper than US hotels - you'd get a 4 star hotel for 2 star hotels you pay for in the States.

PS I am not pushing you at all - the DeVore speakers are really nice you've heard them and you know them. The big Trenner&Freidl I chose as one of the five best rooms at CES awhile back being driven by HEED amplifiers and a tube I can't remember the name of off hand - It was one of the best audio reproduction systems I've ever heard - and under show conditions no less. Harbeth is very musical and so is the Devore - especially the chubby ones. The M40, AN E/J, Orangutan, RA Box, ATC SCM 150 are all chubby speakers and IMO are the ones on the right musical track. They're all so damn expensive however.
 
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Not sure how to respond to that post except to say that I don't have room for "chubby" speakers.

I don't know how old you are but I have owned speakers with foam, rubber and accordian surrounds and the foam ones always fail first (even here in Oregon...remember NHT). That said, who cares? I am not going LA or the Bay area to audition another set of speakers and that is as close as those are to me.

BTW, the fellas at Seattle HiFi rarely answer the phone. Not my idea of a good dealer. If I'm not mistaken they also carry Dynaudio and Penaudio.

So as much as I appreciate the recommendation I don't think I will get a chance to hear them. I will try Seattle HiFi again and if as usual I get no answer then **** them and all their ilk. All I can do is try.

Another thing...I owned every iteration of Paradigm Reference speaker and the V3 was the best Studio 20 (not 100) of the bunch. I was a huge Paradigm fan at one point and have owned 20 or more pairs of them...starting with the first series.

If I get a chance I will hear the AN's, if not I won't lose sleep.

I hate it when location has such an impact on choice!
 
We actually have a lot of dealers within a hundred miles of here. The Northwest is a HiFi heaven so to speak with lots of dealers and brands available, just not AN that I am aware of.

After speaking with my favorite dealer again yesterday I am leaning pretty strongly toward the Spendor's. Still have to go to Portland to hear some other speakers but at this point the Spendor's are the speaker to beat.
 
My personal observation is that if any of these speakers you claim are terrific were any good you would not be going through them faster than underwear. With all the money spent on piddly entry level stuff you'll wind up dumping them in 5 months for another one.

Paradigm hasn't made a speaker worth listening to since I've heard them. And I heard pretty much every iteration from V1-V3 and their Sig 2 and Sig8. I wish I liked them being Canadian and all but meh - just another plastic woofer with a pingy metal tweeter in a slim box with inept microdynamic behavior. They sound artificial.

Going through 20 Pairs of them illustrates none of them had much lasting appeal. I have not heard the ART but the RA Box is leagues ahead of the mid-fi home theater packaging speaker companies like Paradigm/PSB/B&Ws etc of the world. Yeah I was a huge fan of these when I started out. They've become almost unlistenable to me for any length of time.

Have you considered these for $4k http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stirling-broadcast-ls36/
 
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