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Changing it Up! Part Deux

RGA said:
My personal observation is that if any of these speakers you claim are terrific were any good you would not be going through them faster than underwear. With all the money spent on piddly entry level stuff you'll wind up dumping them in 5 months for another one.

Paradigm hasn't made a speaker worth listening to since I've heard them. And I heard pretty much every iteration from V1-V3 and their Sig 2 and Sig8. I wish I liked them being Canadian and all but meh - just another plastic woofer with a pingy metal tweeter in a slim box with inept microdynamic behavior. They sound artificial.

Going through 20 Pairs of them illustrates none of them had much lasting appeal. I have not heard the ART but the RA Box is leagues ahead of the mid-fi home theater packaging speaker companies like Paradigm/PSB/B&Ws etc of the world. Yeah I was a huge fan of these when I started out. They've become almost unlistenable to me for any length of time.

Have you considered these for $4k http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stirling-broadcast-ls36/
Click to expand...

I come to this thread to read it like I read Stereophile with a cup of nice java. Why all the pushing guys. Relax and enjoy the journey of our audiophile protagonists, wherever it takes him.

I would like to hear more about cool speakers like the T&F ones.

Carry on gents. :thmbsp:
 
RGA said:
My personal observation is that if any of these speakers you claim are terrific were any good you would not be going through them faster than underwear. With all the money spent on piddly entry level stuff you'll wind up dumping them in 5 months for another one.

Paradigm hasn't made a speaker worth listening to since I've heard them. And I heard pretty much every iteration from V1-V3 and their Sig 2 and Sig8. I wish I liked them being Canadian and all but meh - just another plastic woofer with a pingy metal tweeter in a slim box with inept microdynamic behavior. They sound artificial.

Going through 20 Pairs of them illustrates none of them had much lasting appeal. I have not heard the ART but the RA Box is leagues ahead of the mid-fi home theater packaging speaker companies like Paradigm/PSB/B&Ws etc of the world. Yeah I was a huge fan of these when I started out. They've become almost unlistenable to me for any length of time.

Have you considered these for $4k http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/stirling-broadcast-ls36/
Click to expand...

First of all, I would ask that you be respectful. I keep most of my speakers for years not months. The ones I keep for less time are never meant to be primary speakers but speakers that I buy to inform me about their sound in my home. I'm not a professional reviewer so folks don't throw review samples at me. If I want to hear a speaker in my home I have to buy it...period.

I bought Paradigm speakers because I had a local (not regional) dealer who was also a friend and that was his primary speaker. Whether you think they are good or not is completely irrelevant. I enjoyed them. I bought my first pair in the mid 90's. Why 20 pair...I wasn't going through them faster than underwear. I started with a pair in my stereo with an NAD amp and Marantz cd player. As my pay improved I moved up in the line. From there I moved to a better job and and HT was all the rage so I bought more Paradigm speakers for the HT, what I could afford. From their when, and if, the brand improved I upgraded because my friend who was a dealer gave me great deals. I also bought setups for other rooms and other peoples homes. You know what they say about assumptions, RGA. You made assumptions and in the process, well you know.

Not that I should have to explain to you but since you decided to tell everyone my HiFi history without actually knowing it, I felt the need to correct it.

Let me add that I enjoy different sounds and enjoy getting to know what different manufacturers offer. I do generally like to hear them before buying. Can't always but in general I like to.

Truth is, all HiFi is artificial. Only live music sounds like live music, everything else does not.
 
The Stirlings are indeed an excellent speaker, but not one I would try to shoehorn into a room like Art's. not saying it couldn't be done but.....
 
botrytis said:
They are unique and sound very amazing for their size. If you had a dealer around you - do take a listen. I keep looking for a pair to buy (on A'gon, etc) and they rarely come up for sale.
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Interesting that their distributor is also Sonneteer's distributor. Small wonder you can't find them anywhere. Both brands need a little better profile in this country. I'm convinced that if more folks heard Sonneteer amps they would buy them. Then again, like LFD, that may mean they would have to produce them differently. There is pride of ownership with my Campion that comes with being hand made by a company that cares. I can email Haider or Remo (the fellas behind Sonneteer) and actually get a response...and it will be both respectful and informative. There is a lot to be said for that.
 
There is pride of ownership with my Campion that comes with being hand made by a company that cares. I can email Haider or Remo (the fellas behind Sonneteer) and actually get a response...and it will be both respectful and informative. There is a lot to be said for that.
Click to expand...
True. I emailed to Sonneteer a few months ago, regardig some small internal tweaks in the Campion, which I read about on the Sonneteer site.

Within 2 days later I got a reply from the designer of the Campion itself, Haider Bahrani. (here's a quote of the email I received)

"The tweaks on the Campion were mainly in the power supply and pre-amplifier sections.
We spent a lot of time listening but in the end some very small changes made the significant differences.

The sound is a little tighter and more controlled like the Alabaster.

Also the truth is this version has been available for more than a year so all stockists should have this version in stock.

I hope this is helpful.

Best regards,
Haider"
 
Art: "...Truth is, all HiFi is artificial. Only live music sounds like live music, everything else does not."

That brings up another issue of where you hear live music. Every venue sounds different from the horror of a sports stadium to the nice theater ones with some sound engineering.

I go to live music a lot. Not so much available here but for 20 yrs I spent winters in mostly Seattle, but also Portland and more.

Last winter I hung out at a jazz lounge in a high end hotel in Bangkok. I mention that because it sounded a lot better than the crowded bars in Seattle with no thought of acoustics.

Most recently at the Port Townsend Jazz fest. Music in an airplane hanger was much better sounding than a sports stadium. Then you have outdoor venues and fests, but the amplification is problematic.

I sure don't look for speakers that sound like the Tacoma Dome, the Memorial Stadium at Seattle Center, Madison Square Garden etc.
 
Art

Your explanation makes sense but that was tough to imply from the type of message presented in what is a dedicated two channel main speaker discussion. IMO good dealers don't make you pay for things - they let you take it home first to try and then if you like them you can buy them. That has been my experience with every dealer I deal with who lends the gear for home trials and so when I read that you owned 20 speakers all from one brand I was kind of shocked.

Now that you have explained it - buying speakers for home theater takes up 5+ speakers right there, moving up the line a few times etc. To be fair I had read your comment as well as a post from just about one year ago about the Dynaudio and it seemed to me speakers were great for a short time but on longer listening they were getting the boot.

As for live versus reproduced - they're separate animals but great speakers can capture parts of what is available live and better again speakers will provide more more parts and more believable parts. That is part of the hunt - to find a great system that allows one to be able to suspend disbelief enough for most of the music you listen to.

I was rather vocal because I thought initially we shared a similar taste in gear given the LM CD player. But given Paradigm and Dynaudio and Totem we probably aren't on the same sonic page so what I have to add will likely mean diddly so I best bow out. I'll be interested to see where you wind up going on this.
 
For much of my life I have been poor so I didn't have the luxury of traveling from town to town looking at and purchasing HiFi. Since music and it's reproduction was still important to me I befriended the only local dealer who consistently maintained a storefront in my community. He sold a very limited lineup as he knew the community wouldn't support more and he wanted to maintain his store until he retired, which he did. He sold Paradigm speakers and NAD and Rotel electronics (depending on which decade). For Home theater he sold Marantz. That is why I bought so many Paradigm products. As far as our having similar sonic tastes or values, I have no idea. I don't have access to the number of products you do. Most dealers in the area do make you pay up front for a product, primarily because I am not local to any of them.

So yes I enjoyed the Paradigm speakers when I owned them, I wouldn't now. The Totems were never a main speaker in my home and although I had fun with them I quickly sold them as I found them unbalanced...too much energy in the highs and lows and not enough richness in the middle. The Dynaudio X12's are an excellent speaker and I do enjoy them very much. They are not perfect but for the outlay they are pretty close.

I certainly understand your statement about live music as I have stated exactly the same thing here and on at least a half dozen other forums over the last several years. What it takes to suspend disbelief will differ from individual to individual.

Gettin' ready for work...toodles!
 
Hey,

Thought I would throw in my 2 cents,

I too was a big Paradigm fan and had several models before settling on the Signature S4's, I was running a Levinson 23.5 in a smaller bedroom similar to your setup. I then tried Proac 1SC's and loved their more laid back sound. Not dull but more lush with a better midrange sound. The metal tweeter in the S4 was starting to grate on me a bit. I tried Dynaudio 1.3's for a while and really liked them but again, the midrange wasn't as clean and clear. I demoed the Dynaudio C1's and decided they were about the best small speaker I had heard but at $7K they were out of my price range. All this time I was keeping the Proac 1SCs but they were only good to a certain volume level and I like to push the rock and roll from time to time. I started swapping the S4's and the 1SC's. I finally got tired of carrying speakers back and forth so I sold the 1SC's and upgraded to the Proac Two D's. I finally hit my sweet spot. I first found a set in cherry that I had major problems with. Get this, the rubber surrounds were rotting out and the replacement bass drivers were running about $500 each. I replaced both drivers and sold the cherry D Two's. I couldn't get Proac to even talk to me as the set I bought were used. I ended up picking up a second set in ebony from my local dealer and so far they are great. I'm not real thrilled with Proac as a company but the speakers fit my setup perfectly. I am currently running a Modwright 9.0 SE with a set of Quicksilver S4's and a Levinson DAC. The sound is everything I could ask for, jazz is sweet and very non fatiguing the rock stuff can be driven hard and the speakers seem to handle a pretty high SPL without a single issue.

The other speaker I would recommend listening to, are the little Tannoy Autograph Mini ... every time I hear them I like them more and more. There is a shop in downtown Portland that sells Tannoy and every time I am in there I find myself parked in front of the Mini's. The build quality is amazing and the sound is wonderful.

Ultimately I can see a used set of Dynaudio C1's but I am happy for the time being. I still see the used market commanding $4K for a used set of the Dynaudio C1's. Thats a bit out of my current comfort zone. I picked up a Jolida phono pre and a Rega P25 turntable, I figure that will keep me busy for a year or two.
 
I've taken an extended listen to the C1's as well as the C4's. Great speaker. The S4's with that tweeter...I believe Beryllium, it would be better matched with a warmer amp Like Pass or even tubes. I've had a very good listen to Revel Salon2's as well as the Studios....both having Beryllium and both matched with Levinson and it was a great match. I've known guys who have had ProAc speakers who have had the tweeters as well as the woofers stop working....they where able to get the drivers at Parts Express for less.
 
SPEC2man said:
Hey,

Thought I would throw in my 2 cents,

I too was a big Paradigm fan and had several models before settling on the Signature S4's, I was running a Levinson 23.5 in a smaller bedroom similar to your setup. I then tried Proac 1SC's and loved their more laid back sound. Not dull but more lush with a better midrange sound. The metal tweeter in the S4 was starting to grate on me a bit. I tried Dynaudio 1.3's for a while and really liked them but again, the midrange wasn't as clean and clear. I demoed the Dynaudio C1's and decided they were about the best small speaker I had heard but at $7K they were out of my price range. All this time I was keeping the Proac 1SCs but they were only good to a certain volume level and I like to push the rock and roll from time to time. I started swapping the S4's and the 1SC's. I finally got tired of carrying speakers back and forth so I sold the 1SC's and upgraded to the Proac Two D's. I finally hit my sweet spot. I first found a set in cherry that I had major problems with. Get this, the rubber surrounds were rotting out and the replacement bass drivers were running about $500 each. I replaced both drivers and sold the cherry D Two's. I couldn't get Proac to even talk to me as the set I bought were used. I ended up picking up a second set in ebony from my local dealer and so far they are great. I'm not real thrilled with Proac as a company but the speakers fit my setup perfectly. I am currently running a Modwright 9.0 SE with a set of Quicksilver S4's and a Levinson DAC. The sound is everything I could ask for, jazz is sweet and very non fatiguing the rock stuff can be driven hard and the speakers seem to handle a pretty high SPL without a single issue.

The other speaker I would recommend listening to, are the little Tannoy Autograph Mini ... every time I hear them I like them more and more. There is a shop in downtown Portland that sells Tannoy and every time I am in there I find myself parked in front of the Mini's. The build quality is amazing and the sound is wonderful.

Ultimately I can see a used set of Dynaudio C1's but I am happy for the time being. I still see the used market commanding $4K for a used set of the Dynaudio C1's. Thats a bit out of my current comfort zone. I picked up a Jolida phono pre and a Rega P25 turntable, I figure that will keep me busy for a year or two.
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That shop would be Echo, I suspect. I've known Kurt for years. Unfortunately I couldn't look at the Mini's. They are one ugly speaker. I first heard them at Stereotypes when they carried Tannoy.

I agree that ProAc customer service is terrible. When I owned the Studio 110's I tried contacting them and the best I could do was a distributor who didn't seem to care.

I like the build quality on the Dynaudio's and also love the balance.
 
DSC09886.jpg


damn that's a nice looking stand.
 
Slippers, David, those Boxers are nice looking speakers but like Art, I like matt finish natural wood best. I do have some piano black Quad11L with matching NHT sub that the wife likes so I put it in her room.
 
To be honest there were a number of things about the Boxers that I didn't like. As I stated in my write up about the visit to Stereotypes audio, they sounded big but had too many faults or weaknesses for me to want to take them home. I was particularly disheartened by how they sounded when you gave the side of the cabinet a bit of a rap. I heard that chestiness when I listened to them as well.
 
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