Cheap kg-4 tweeter modification.
- Thread starter Carbsandcaps
- Start date
seagiant
Active Member
Hi,
Oh yea!!!
seagiant
Active Member
Hi,
Well...Just finished my first XO recap, and...
The Speakers actually worked when I finished!
Four Cap in all.
Bought the "Silver" Recap Kit from Crites, nice people and super fast shipping!
Do they sound better, I think so, but I need to listen more and I guess they need to "burn in", as they say.
Well...Just finished my first XO recap, and...
The Speakers actually worked when I finished!
Four Cap in all.
Bought the "Silver" Recap Kit from Crites, nice people and super fast shipping!
Do they sound better, I think so, but I need to listen more and I guess they need to "burn in", as they say.
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Having tinkered with a lot of speakers and knowing a lot of tinkerers of speakers in the Klipsch community, and hearing the results I know cheap mods can do real things. #1 cheap mod on my list is the brace in a La Scala from the dog house to the outside walls. Tinkering a lot of times is doing the right thing that the OEM refused to do for whatever reason. Or taking those loose glue joints and fixing them up. Thinking CF series here. A 2 x 4 from the front of a Cornwall to the back to stop boominess is another cheap but worthwhile fix.
Audiogon comes to mind here.
DEFTECHY
Well-Known Member
@seagiant Good to hear you got the caps installed ok, told ya it wasnt difficult at all if you can do basic soldering. This aint rocket surgery & the majority of people can do this themselves with basic mechanical aptitude.
FYI on the cap "burn in"- Crites & most others say caps in speaker crossovers, especially film, dont burn in, they meet their specs when they are built, the only thing burning in is your ears getting used to the sound. Heres how they explain it but has a lot more info on their FAQ section.
Q: Do components have a break-in time?
A: Some do and some don't. Capacitors would be a definite NO. Let's look at this one a bit.
You have new good quality capacitors installed in your crossovers. Capacitors have exactly two qualities that effect the sound of your music that goes through them. Those are capacitance (what we use them for) and ESR. ESR is the sum of all other qualities of a capacitor other than capacitance expressed as an Equivalent Series Resistance. ESR is a bad thing. Good caps have ESR so low it is barely measurable, on the order of a couple of hundredths of an ohm. ESR is made up of stuff like the resistance of the leads and their connections to the foil inside the capacitor or stray inductance or dielectric absorption.
So, we put our new caps in the crossovers. These new caps are right on the capacitance value the design calls for and the ESR is almost unmeasurably low. What exactly of these two qualities do you expect to change with break-in? And if either of them changed, why would you expect the sound to get better since the only way they could change is to go away from the "perfect" values they had to start with? I hope any caps you use in your crossovers are good enough that they do not change at all for many years of use.
FYI on the cap "burn in"- Crites & most others say caps in speaker crossovers, especially film, dont burn in, they meet their specs when they are built, the only thing burning in is your ears getting used to the sound. Heres how they explain it but has a lot more info on their FAQ section.
Q: Do components have a break-in time?
A: Some do and some don't. Capacitors would be a definite NO. Let's look at this one a bit.
You have new good quality capacitors installed in your crossovers. Capacitors have exactly two qualities that effect the sound of your music that goes through them. Those are capacitance (what we use them for) and ESR. ESR is the sum of all other qualities of a capacitor other than capacitance expressed as an Equivalent Series Resistance. ESR is a bad thing. Good caps have ESR so low it is barely measurable, on the order of a couple of hundredths of an ohm. ESR is made up of stuff like the resistance of the leads and their connections to the foil inside the capacitor or stray inductance or dielectric absorption.
So, we put our new caps in the crossovers. These new caps are right on the capacitance value the design calls for and the ESR is almost unmeasurably low. What exactly of these two qualities do you expect to change with break-in? And if either of them changed, why would you expect the sound to get better since the only way they could change is to go away from the "perfect" values they had to start with? I hope any caps you use in your crossovers are good enough that they do not change at all for many years of use.
seagiant
Active Member
Hi,
Well, maybe Stereo Techs, use the term "burn in", to run the rebuilt Unit as more a trial run, that everything is good, before giving it back to the Owner.
No doubt, cuts down on returns, which we know, is a pain for both parties!
You Gentlemen, that can rebuild these Vintage Receiver/Stereos, have my total respect, after this little job!!!
Well, maybe Stereo Techs, use the term "burn in", to run the rebuilt Unit as more a trial run, that everything is good, before giving it back to the Owner.
No doubt, cuts down on returns, which we know, is a pain for both parties!
You Gentlemen, that can rebuild these Vintage Receiver/Stereos, have my total respect, after this little job!!!
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ah, makes sense. Sounds like I'll just leave it be. I have them as a secondary setup mostly used for testing sources so its not a big deal.
Gigantic
A big, big love
it can also slow decay of the bass frequencies, making them boomy and indistinct, but that will depend largely on the amount of weight and the woofer. with my Frankenstein fortes, I needed all 700g of weight that came with the Dayton Audio 15" passives to extend to approximately 32Hz. with my LaScalus, it won't tolerate any weight to dig to 23Hz, the difference being an Eminence Delta Pro 12A that had an FS somewhere around 50Hz (my memory is hazy, sorry) and the JBL 2225, with an FS closer to 30Hz, as well as a significant difference in cabinet volume.
seagiant
Active Member
Hi,
Well, I was going to wait to tackle the finish but the more I looked at these Speakers...
The more I became convinced they did not need a complete tear down and a complete refinish.
Sooo...wiped everything down with paint thinner and some 0000 Steel Wool.
The boxes are made of plywood instead of the MDF they use today, with Oak Veneer...
Painted black with semi gloss Lacquer Paint.
Did not want more paint to cover the grain so tried Ebony Stain, but no good.
One of my other Hobbies is Leatherwork so grabbed some Black Leather Dye and it worked, very well actually.
There is also a 12" Passive on the back with no protection so decided to put a grill on that.
Does not change the sound and better than it being knocked in or scratched.
Let the dye dry and then rubbed in some Howard"s Feed and Wax and was done.
The other one gets done tomorrow and happy with the results and now get to just enjoy them!
Well, I was going to wait to tackle the finish but the more I looked at these Speakers...
The more I became convinced they did not need a complete tear down and a complete refinish.
Sooo...wiped everything down with paint thinner and some 0000 Steel Wool.
The boxes are made of plywood instead of the MDF they use today, with Oak Veneer...
Painted black with semi gloss Lacquer Paint.
Did not want more paint to cover the grain so tried Ebony Stain, but no good.
One of my other Hobbies is Leatherwork so grabbed some Black Leather Dye and it worked, very well actually.
There is also a 12" Passive on the back with no protection so decided to put a grill on that.
Does not change the sound and better than it being knocked in or scratched.
Let the dye dry and then rubbed in some Howard"s Feed and Wax and was done.
The other one gets done tomorrow and happy with the results and now get to just enjoy them!
DEFTECHY
Well-Known Member
The mod from Mr James is something like 1-2 ounces, very little weight to just extend them a few hz, nothing major and unless driven very hard it wont decay the bass or overextend the passive/woofer.
Im not familiar with your franken fortes, or Scalus, but stock forte/2 are rated at 32hz with no mods according to published specs. Most fortes dont really need the weight mod since they go pretty low in stock form, its the Chorus2 that only goes to ~40hz that can benefit from it or the chorus at 45hz that longer ports help lower the bass freq a little.
IMO, almost any speaker can benefit from a good sub for bass below mid 30's & 40hz.
DEFTECHY
Well-Known Member
They look great!Hi,
Well, I was going to wait to tackle the finish but the more I looked at these Speakers...
The more I became convinced they did not need a complete tear down and a complete refinish.
Sooo...wiped everything down with paint thinner and some 0000 Steel Wool.
The boxes are made of plywood instead of the MDF they use today, with Oak Veneer...
Painted black with semi gloss Lacquer Paint.
Did not want more paint to cover the grain so tried Ebony Stain, but no good.
One of my other Hobbies is Leatherwork so grabbed some Black Leather Dye and it worked, very well actually.
There is also a 12" Passive on the back with no protection so decided to put a grill on that.
Does not change the sound and better than it being knocked in or scratched.
Let the dye dry and then rubbed in some Howard"s Feed and Wax and was done.
The other one gets done tomorrow and happy with the results and now get to just enjoy them!
View attachment 3154175View attachment 3154176View attachment 3154177
Not sure if I mentioned this to you or not, looks like the woofer surrounds have the notorious white spots that these rubber surrounds can get, kinda dried out looking too. You can use a product for marine & automotive rubber, vinyl & plastic that rejuvinates & protects the rubber and will get rid of the white spots, its called 303 protectant, can buy at walmart or other auto stores or online. Spray a small amount on a clean rag & gently wipe on the surrounds, let sit a bit then wipe off any excess. Ive used it for years on auto parts with excellent results and found it worked good on these rubber surrounds too. Did my Forte2 5+ years ago when I bought them and they still look great.
seagiant
Active Member
Hi,
Thanks, I've actually got some of that and some of the AT-205, that I use on rubber boots and bits on my SUV.
Thought of, but was scared to experiment, on the Klipsch's!
The rubber still feels very supple on the surrounds!
DEFTECHY
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to mention a way to get rid of the white spots & add some protection. KG4 & other older models with the rubber surrounds like that can get very dry & actually crack or split. These are very old and can benefit from a product like 303.
Not sure what AT205 product you have, but I have used the AT205 for rear main seals in engines, its supposed to rejuvinate or slightly swell rubber/neoprene rear manin seals to stop oil leaks... not sure Id want to put that on old speaker surrounds, but the 303 works great in my experience.
Not sure what AT205 product you have, but I have used the AT205 for rear main seals in engines, its supposed to rejuvinate or slightly swell rubber/neoprene rear manin seals to stop oil leaks... not sure Id want to put that on old speaker surrounds, but the 303 works great in my experience.
seagiant
Active Member
Hi,
Thanks, good to get real experience on this!
Would not want to see the the rubber "melt", right before my eyes!!!
Gigantic
A big, big love
my frankenstein fortes were basically my Claude Mod Heresy clones with a bass extension bin and a 15" Dayton Audio passive radiator. I was going off of my memory. Looking at the last measurements I did, bi-amping, pre dsp showed that it extended to 25Hz +/- 5dB which wasn't that bad, but without PEQ to flatten the peaks and nulls, it could have been better
My LaScalus (portmanteau of LaScala+Chorus) with the same passive mounted on the back of the upper horn enclosure was really boomy with all the weight and I ended up removing all of it and adding PEQ via Dayton Audio DSP408 for a flat response from 23Hz
