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Compact 3-Way Horn Speaker

Cabinet volume is 4 ft3, but I can add an additional 1/2 foot withdrawal spacer between boxes if necessary. The woofer Vas ranges between 5.22 ft and 4.5 ft for the low cost options I am considering

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Dayton Audio Pro 12" 8 Ohm Subwoofer Odeum 12LF

Dayton Audio Pro 12" 8 Ohm Subwoofer Odeum 12LF Dayton Audio Odeum Apollo 12LF400-8 12" Professional Woofer ode· um | \ ō-ˈdē-əm: An ancient Greek and Roman concert hall used for music and poetry. Using the knowledge from decades of driver design and engineering, Dayton Audio is placing an...
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Dayton Audio Pro 12 in. 8 Ohm Neodymium Midbass Woofer Odeum 12N

Dayton Audio Pro 12 in. 8 Ohm Neodymium Midbass Woofer Odeum 12NDayton Audio Pro 12 in. 8 Ohm Neodymium Midbass Woofer Odeum 12Node· um | \ ō-ˈdē-əm: An ancient Greek and Roman concert hall used for music and poetry. Using the knowledge from decades of driver design and engineering, Dayton Audio...
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And 2.7 ft for the higher priced option
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Dayton Audio Pro 12 in. 8 Ohm Neodymium Midbass Woofer Odeum 12N

Dayton Audio Pro 12 in. 8 Ohm Neodymium Midbass Woofer Odeum 12NDayton Audio Pro 12 in. 8 Ohm Neodymium Midbass Woofer Odeum 12Node· um | \ ō-ˈdē-əm: An ancient Greek and Roman concert hall used for music and poetry. Using the knowledge from decades of driver design and engineering, Dayton Audio...
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Iäm leaning towards the 2nd option, but I might try both of the first two and see what works best. I’m willing to sacrifice sensitivity for better range, but not if it negatively affects SQ.

Ive not been sleeping well lately and miscalculated my passive requirements. I’m now leaning towards either a 12in or 15in passive; the most cost effective solution unfortunately is a Klipsch 15“ product. I’d rather use the Dayton Audio version, but it’s back ordered through May and twice as expensive.
 
A woofer raw VAS spec is not an accurate parameter to base the volume of an enclosure on. You should simulate before you purchase a woofer.
 
As a start, since you have a 12" woofer for your ported Super Heresy, I would use that 12" in the new Mini-Horn as a metric to see where you are. Since you already have it, no cost is involved to try it. Based on the results, go from there.
 
THD+N said:
As a start, since you have a 12" woofer for your ported Super Heresy, I would use that 12" in the new Mini-Horn as a metric to see where you are. Since you already have it, no cost is involved to try it. Based on the results, go from there.
Click to expand...
I've done that with the TF1226, as the $200 solution. The short horn part looks good down to 110 H. I shared the curve with him, and leave it up to him to do the hard part with the passives. I'm sure he will succeed. With or without our collective 4 cent's worth. LOL.
The best thing was the elimination the LaScala's straight section. He made the doghouse more like a Peavey FH-1.
All of these have similar curves which will be tweaked with DSP anyhow, so worrying about a few db, acoustically, should not be part of the assessment of future performance.
 
I've run some sims for a vented enclosure with a 127L Vb & since I don't have equivalent # for a Passive, I'm running with a 4" x 7.75" port. First up, the Delta Pro 12A:
DeltaPro12A vented.png
response is in line with my previous Franken Forte, using similar cabinet volume. cutoff is at approximately 38Hz.

Next up is the Dayton Audio Odeon 12N, which I had been favoring:
DAayton Audeo Odeon.png
It drops off in the mid 30's, which is quite good, but less than I'd hoped. It can be tuned lower by adding weight to the passive, but that can have a negative effect on low frequency decay.

next on deck is the Dayton Audio Odeon 12LF:
Dayton Odeon Sub.png
LF extension goes to 30Hz, which is great, but it also has a dip between 69Hz and the low frequency cutoff, and a rising rate after about 120Hz and is down 4.5dB in sensitivity compared to the Delta Pro 12a and 2dB below the Odeon 12N, which is sub optimal.

Last one up is the Goldwood GW 1258. It's currently on sale at just under $58:
Goldwood.png
Sensitivity is 2dB below the Eminence Delta Pro 12A and it has an Fs of 41.5Hz. Flat response is better than vented response, so that one is out.

I'm open to more suggestions.
 
Gigantic said:
I've run some sims for a vented enclosure with a 127L Vb & since I don't have equivalent # for a Passive, I'm running with a 4" x 7.75" port. First up, the Delta Pro 12A:

response is in line with my previous Franken Forte, using similar cabinet volume. cutoff is at approximately 38Hz.

Next up is the Dayton Audio Odeon 12N, which I had been favoring:

It drops off in the mid 30's, which is quite good, but less than I'd hoped. It can be tuned lower by adding weight to the passive, but that can have a negative effect on low frequency decay.

next on deck is the Dayton Audio Odeon 12LF:

LF extension goes to 30Hz, which is great, but it also has a dip between 69Hz and the low frequency cutoff, and a rising rate after about 120Hz and is down 4.5dB in sensitivity compared to the Delta Pro 12a and 2dB below the Odeon 12N, which is sub optimal.

Last one up is the Goldwood GW 1258. It's currently on sale at just under $58:
View attachment 3394501
Sensitivity is 2dB below the Eminence Delta Pro 12A and it has an Fs of 41.5Hz. Flat response is better than vented response, so that one is out.

I'm open to more suggestions.
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Since you asked. I plugged in the Goldwood (black) into my best guess for the HORN part of you Mini, as I did with the Odeum (gray) into 1 PI space.

MiniScalusOdeumVSGoldwood.jpg
At $58 bux times 2 with free shipping, looks like you may have a winner for the bang for buck dept. You don't need more than a 2mm Xmax to reach 400 Hz with the proposed mid driver. Horn loading added to the reflex both reduce excursions, so PEQ's will take care of the rest of the "wiggles" when you do Acoustic, mike measurements.
Aside from that, you will have ample time to measure the ONE woofer you use to verify with your Microphone.
 
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ClaudeJ1 said:
Since you asked. I plugged in the Goldwood (black) into my best guess for the HORN part of you Mini, as I did with the Odeum (gray) into 1 PI space.

View attachment 3394605
At $58 bux times 2 with free shipping, looks like you may have a winner for the bang for buck dept. You don't need more than a 2mm Xmax to reach 400 Hz with the proposed mid driver. Horn loading added to the reflex both reduce excursions, so PEQ's will take care of the rest of the "wiggles" when you do Acoustic, mike measurements.
Aside from that, you will have ample time to measure the ONE woofer you use to verify with your Microphone.
Click to expand...
my concern with the Goldwood is that the sim does not seem to work well as reflex enclosure with its hi Q. My worry with it is that while it works like a Mini k-33 in horn loading, which looks great, is that it will also work like a mini K-33 or like a K-22 in a bass reflex situation, which is decidedly sub optimal: boomy and indistinct. To whit, the T/S small parameters are closer to the K22 than to the Dayton Odeon 12N and the T/S of the Dayton Odeon 12N is much closer to the JBL 2225H that I've used in my 15" 3-way. in a horn/acoustic suspension scenario, the Goldwood is the clear winner, but in my intended alignment, I have doubts.
 
It looks like the Pro-12A or 12N may be the best candidates of those woofers. Price seems right too. With some room gain, 38Hz can easily be extended a few Hertz to meet your goal(s). I wonder how the TF1225 simulates? Claude?
 
this is what it looks like in a bass reflex alignment:
celestion1225.png

for comparison, here's the Delta Pro 12A
DeltaPro12A vented.png
in a vented enclosure, the Delta Pro 12A performs a hair better. I'd imagine they're nearly the same as horns
 
Gigantic said:
my concern with the Goldwood is that the sim does not seem to work well as reflex enclosure with its hi Q. My worry with it is that while it works like a Mini k-33 in horn loading, which looks great, is that it will also work like a mini K-33 or like a K-22 in a bass reflex situation, which is decidedly sub optimal: boomy and indistinct. To whit, the T/S small parameters are closer to the K22 than to the Dayton Odeon 12N and the T/S of the Dayton Odeon 12N is much closer to the JBL 2225H that I've used in my 15" 3-way. in a horn/acoustic suspension scenario, the Goldwood is the clear winner, but in my intended alignment, I have doubts.
Click to expand...
Pretty cheap to actually try with a PE's generous return policy.
 
ClaudeJ1 said:
Pretty cheap to actually try with a PE's generous return policy.
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The T/S numbers are close enough to the K-22 that I’m fairly confident on how it will behave, in spite of, or perhaps due to my limited experience. I’d prefer a driver with a smaller Q for better low end damping. I think I'll save th $20 in return shipping and skip it.
 
In an offline convo with @ClaudeJ1 I mentioned that I was using JBL's 2225H as my benchmark for the new driver search. He brought up the JBL 2206H:
JBL2206.png
It simulates exceptionally well in a vented enclosure. I just ordered one from Reverb.
 
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Gigantic said:
In an offline convo with @ClaudeJ1 I mentioned that I was using JBL's 2225H as my benchmark for the new driver search. He brought up the JBL 2206H:

It simulates exceptionally well in a vented enclosure. I just ordered one from Reverb.
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Those drivers are almost $500 new. If you got the one from Pocahontas, VA, you got a steal deal.
 
Gigantic said:
Ordered a used one from BGS in Huntington, CA, for 64% off the cost of new.
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Have fun when you get it. Looking at your Red curve, it reminds of what bose once did for their Car speaker that one of our engineers had. They tuned the enclosure to a low frequency, creating a "sag" similar to your curve.
Then the used EQ to flatten the sag at a higher point than the tuning frequency, thereby using less power and not increasing IM distortion the would have happended at a lower frequency boost below the tuning frequency. Unlike a front horn, you can't boost bass under where the woofer acoustically unloads. Otherwise you have a driver that is now "flapping in the breeze" and not making any bass.
Jbl has a Four 15" woofer Pro bass reflex cab with 2226 woofers in it. It has a very slow rolloff with a slight downward angle, which is compensated for by room gain. FYI
 
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