• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

CONFESSION - about cables and interconnects

Status
Not open for further replies.
2FarGone said:
FWIW, when I first made the change from a set of Zu Audio Mission speaker cables to a pair of fairly high-end Synergistic Research biwire cables, I did notice a difference but but didn’t feel that the improvement justified the expenditure I had made. It wasn’t until I picked up a set of the corresponding ICs from the same guy that I found out what the new cables really sounded like.

Your experiment was done with some pretty good components and I have zero interest in getting mired in yet another cable debate, but you don’t mention the ICs used. Had you installed some pretty good ICs first and then performed your test, the results may well have been different. You can put the best speaker cables on the planet in there, but they’re still the last link. All they can do is show you what the rest of the system upstream sounds like, be it excellent or not so much.
Click to expand...

For the test that I posted in #742, all the music was from lossless ripped CDs on a Music Server. A friend of mine purchased the Morrow speaker cables and found no difference between his older cables and the Morrows and asked me if I wanted to try them. His system is the Peachtree Nova 300 with Wharfedale Evo 4.3 speakers. The Peachtree is an integrated amp with a built in DAC so no interconnects were used in this case. The other 3 systems are my systems where I used my DACs as preamps feeding the amps directly. The 3 DACs used were a Benchmark DAC1, a Mytek Stereo192-DSD and an Emotiva XDA-2. All the interconnects between the DAC/preamps and amps were Mogami 2549. I always felt that the Mogami were pretty good interconnects.
 
Last edited:
Lou G said:
Interesting, what are your speakers and amp and what type of cables did you replace with the Morrows?
Click to expand...
I'm running a YBA Integre DT into home built oak framed Acoustat Medallion 2+2s that are fairly heavily modified with 6k bias, fuses bypassed, Clarity CSA caps, Mundorf resistors, upgraded binding posts and internal wiring with the HF control at max. The next time I go into them, I'll bypass the HF control completely as I never reduce it.

As a concrete example of a clarity increase, I have a Bill Evans box set, and on one cut I could always hear the patrons in the Village Vanguard chatting away, but when I replaced some old fat "Time Coherent" something or other Monster cables that were given to me and I'd been using for decades with the SP2s, it was a dramatic change: I could understand words they were saying and I could much more easily discern depth in the recording and where each of them were sitting. Not that this is necessarily desirable, but it's a kind of binary result that was not at all subtle. The instruments all just sounded more natural and well defined <insert all the usual audiophile words here, along with the wife in the kitchen etc.>

I went into the comparison not expecting to hear any difference. The Morrows felt weightless compared to the Monsters which made me think there wasn't much there. But I now realize that's part of the good design. Air is the best dielectric, and cotton is maybe a close second. I've since upgraded to SP4s which may have increased the bass weight a little. I agree on the paradox of if you can't measure it, then it must be damn hard to improve it, but I tend to be in the camp that says the human ear has capablities that we can't necessarily isolate and measure.

The brain and ears are a system that has been fine tuned over millions of years to quickly assess direction and distance via different cues including amplitude, phase, frequency, etc. As someone with a degree in physics, I don't find it at all outlandish to claim that strands in electrical contact with each other can smear phase relationships in a dynamic electrical signal, especially considering that there can be diode effects due to corrosion.

I was skeptical of vibration isolation until I listened to a YBA Integre DT in a hifi shop be put on hockey pucks one at a time, and the sound improved after each one was placed under it. Again, this is quite possibly reducing phase smearing because metal in motion in an electric field will produce current. Isolation can change those frequencies around and possibly remove them from critical ranges that affect our image perception. I'm now using roller blocks a machinist friend turned up for me which channel the energy of vibration to a few hertz and they work for me.
 
So, you do realize that phase noise can actually be measured, and that audio signals almost entirely do not travel within the wires but in the fields around the wires, which is why they travel almost at the speed of light?
So, if magical cables somehow reduce the phase noise, then don't you think it could be measured?
If the phase noise at audio frequencies is unmeasurable, then just jack the frequency up - run the signal at 1MHz, or 10 MHz or whatever and see what happens to the phase noise sidebands. Sh**, I've evaluated the phase noise at 100s of kHz to 100s of MHz in cables with various characteristics as outputs from extremely low phase noise PLLs and not seen the kind of issues that the magical audiophile cables supposedly address.
Give me a break.
This is not an insurmountable engineering problem. It's an apparently insurmountable subjectivity problem and that's an entirely different issue.
 
wyn palmer said:
So, you do realize that phase noise can actually be measured, and that audio signals almost entirely do not travel within the wires but in the fields around the wires, which is why they travel almost at the speed of light?
So, if magical cables somehow reduce the phase noise, then don't you think it could be measured?
If the phase noise at audio frequencies is unmeasurable, then just jack the frequency up - run the signal at 1MHz, or 10 MHz or whatever and see what happens to the phase noise sidebands. Sh**, I've evaluated the phase noise at 100s of kHz to 100s of MHz in cables with various characteristics as outputs from extremely low phase noise PLLs and not seen the kind of issues that the magical audiophile cables supposedly address.
Give me a break.
This is not an insurmountable engineering problem. It's an apparently insurmountable subjectivity problem and that's an entirely different issue.
Click to expand...
You sir are in the wrong hobby. Audio easily circumvents laws when justifying dollars spent.
 
Tom Brennan said:
The biggest improvement in wires came sometime in the late 1970s when audiophiles started calling patch cords and RCA wires "interconnects".
Click to expand...

I can remember upgrading the TA interconnect and speaker cables in about 78, but not the preamp to amp interconnect which I in all probability did at the same time.
 
Last edited:
I just bought a Rotel rc-1580 pre amp to replace my McIntosh Mx113 I was using mediabridge cables for it not expensive but with the Mx113 they worked great but when I used them with the rotel not so good the rotel souned terrible so for the fun of it I tried a old pair of ixos cables I had used a pair for the rotel and a pair for the dac and I was blown away as to how much better the rotel sounded with ixos cable.Im not a big cable guy as far as price goes and wasn't a true believer as far as expensive cables sounding better but the sound difference between these two cable made me believe that there is a difference in cables
 
Natasha Bell said:
I used 18 gauge wire (or smaller) when I first started in the hobby, and the cheapest OEM interconnects. I have found that while all of those things "work", there are others that make the components work much better. It's about diminishing returns, I think. For what my husband does... 18 gauge speaker wire and the cheapest OEM interconnects will work just fine!! :eek::rflmao::music:
Click to expand...
I know this is a older thread , but hey I chime in not to sound sexist but as a tech I hope the lady of the house is home because most often they are more aware of slight differences in operation and sound ! The man of the house will usually say it just stopped working ,where as if the lady of the house is home She will say it made this noise and then this vibration for about 2 min and it quit and she will describe the noise in pitch and duration and it makes my job a lot easier ! If if you say there’s a difference I believe you but it makes me wonder if I could hear a difference and maybe that’s why this is such a controversial subject !
 
Last edited:
ernieb1536 said:
I know this is a older thread , but hey I chime in not to sound sexist but as a tech I hope the lady of the house is home because most often they are more aware of slight differences in operation and sound ! The man of the house will usually say it just stopped working ,where as if the lady of the house is home She will say it made this noise and then this vibration for about 2 min and it quit and she will describe the noise in pitch and duration and it makes my job a lot easier ! If if you say there’s a difference I believe you but it makes me wonder if I could hear a difference and maybe that’s why this is such a controversial subject !
Click to expand...
You are not incorrect in what you said: Women, by nature, tend to have better, more acute hearing (as well as a better sense of smell, in addition to the ability to differentiate between significantly more shades of colors) than men. Men tend to have significant advantages when it comes to recognition space and distance, and the ability to accurately depict a constructed object from memory. This is why the "man of the house" will say: "it stopped working". He should, however, elaborate with WHAT, precisely stopped working..... :eek:

Interesting note: The above differences in ability to smell and hear have been scientifically proven to exist within many mammals. If you want a guard dog, male dogs might be preferable because they tend to be significantly larger. If you want a "watch dog", you may want to get a female due to her typically better hearing and ability to smell. Both with be able to perform either task, but gender should be taken into consideration given the task. :)
 
jek57 said:
I just bought a Rotel rc-1580 pre amp to replace my McIntosh Mx113 I was using mediabridge cables for it not expensive but with the Mx113 they worked great but when I used them with the rotel not so good the rotel souned terrible so for the fun of it I tried a old pair of ixos cables I had used a pair for the rotel and a pair for the dac and I was blown away as to how much better the rotel sounded with ixos cable.Im not a big cable guy as far as price goes and wasn't a true believer as far as expensive cables sounding better but the sound difference between these two cable made me believe that there is a difference in cables
Click to expand...
YES!! Cables do make a difference... I am glad I was not the only one to realize this. :)
 
I've got expensive cables, I've got cheap cables, and I can't see what the fuss is all about...

Spend what you like, but why try and get others to come around your way of thinking?

Guess it's like any other thing in life... people feel alienated if they don't have a group of people that believe like they do... :dunno:
 
Natasha Bell said:
You are not incorrect in what you said: Women, by nature, tend to have better, more acute hearing (as well as a better sense of smell, in addition to the ability to differentiate between significantly more shades of colors) than men. Men tend to have significant advantages when it comes to recognition space and distance, and the ability to accurately depict a constructed object from memory. This is why the "man of the house" will say: "it stopped working". He should, however, elaborate with WHAT, precisely stopped working..... :eek:

Interesting note: The above differences in ability to smell and hear have been scientifically proven to exist within many mammals. If you want a guard dog, male dogs might be preferable because they tend to be significantly larger. If you want a "watch dog", you may want to get a female due to her typically better hearing and ability to smell. Both with be able to perform either task, but gender should be taken into consideration given the task. :)
Click to expand...

True, perhaps, but if you want the best combination of both traits get a goose, best watch 'dog' ever and they will go after anything. :) You're a good one Natasha, hope life is treating you well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom