Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
No you worry about you and what you can control.
Continuous Vintage Failure: Please Recommend New "Modern" Amp
No you worry about you and what you can control.
nailer
audionerd
If you're in control of it, why worry? And your argument was indeed made of straw.
For $1K, the Odyssey Khartago might be all the amp you need. True German high-end design, the first ten watts are in Class A bias, quality parts, a 20 year warranty, and a unique buying experience. You can't order an amp without talking to Klaus on the phone. It MIGHT be possible, technically, but I've never heard of it.....
malden
Lunatic Member
well, you quoted me and used some bs argument against the opinion I posted
were you worrying about you?
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malden
Lunatic Member
Yes, but it takes commitment on the part of the owner and the repair person to keep a piece of vintage gear running properly.
If the OP wants to abandon vintage for new, that's his business. It's not something I would do but that's not to say buying new gear is a bad idea, I just wouldn't frame it as "vintage is crap", or vice versa.
I used to ride a vintage motorcycle, I LOVED working on it. Now I listen to vintage audio gear, I LOVE working on vintage audio gear.
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KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
A welcome return to the old ways. With a warranty only bettered by Bryston, and German quality engineering. What is not to like?
Justrucking
Member
I think the nicest amp in modern terms I have had through here is the Parasound A23+. If I was to purchase anything modern, that is the amp I would start with. It was built like a tank and gave you options on the back panel that others rarely do. And it had a nice analog sound to it, not overly analytical and handled the music quite nicely without being fatiguing.
I've never understood the usefulness of stating prices of old gear in today's dollars.
nailer
audionerd
It's something economists like to do since it represents the impact of inflation on the cost of goods and services. One known shortcoming though is that it doesn't account for the incorporation of new technologies into products such as powered wheeled vehicles, stereos and aircraft. In addition, with items e.g. phones, computers and TVs the incorporation of new technologies has actually greatly improved performance, etc. while at the same time reducing the price in real terms and when inflation adjusted. Trying to understand this fully is enough to make one's head spin.
jayvis
Addicted Member
And I've never understood the usefulness of comparing anything that's 50-years-old to new. We all carry different measuring sticks for different things.
It seem reasonable to me that comparing the performance of an older piece of gear to a newer one is just as useful as comparing new to new or old to old. It always comes down to which one sounds better (at least for me). There are certainly some older components that sound better (more preferable) than some newer components, and vice versa. For example, I have recently been comparing a Lexicon (Bryston) amp to my rebuilt Sansui AU919. I will be selling the Lexicon.
The OP seems to be seeking a particular "coloring" from new that has the characteristics of a "vintage" (70s) mid-market receiver. That's not a direction I've ever been interested in pursuing, so I can't make any suggestions, other than perhaps a thorough rebuild of his Kenwood or a similar unit.
Done well, reliability should be similar to new products targeted at the same market segment, and he gets the sonic characteristics he wants. Of course, the challenge is finding someone to do high-quality work.
jayvis
Addicted Member
You're right. Anyone who's just getting into audio probably should eventually explore both. I just have a hard time recommending vintage audio components right away to those people because of the potential issues and the time required to correct those issues. Plus, unless they know someone who has some, it's harder to find good vintage samples that you can actually see, touch and hear before buying. Those things can quickly become discouraging to a lot of newbies, and many just give up and resort back to their earbuds. I think it's better to take the easier route with new entry level components to get their feet wet with. Once they're ready to dive into the deep end, they can explore vintage stuff and/or new higher-level stuff. No matter which route they decide to take, they'll still have a system to use while they research. It's just my opinion on the best way to enter the audio hobby. In this case, the OP already has experience with some old stuff and now wants to explore new things. No reason to discourage him from doing that.
Agreed, and this is why I recommended new for noobs. Plus it's easy now to get better than good SQ for short $. Dollar for dollar you get "more" for less then when I was coming up in the 70's.
Trying to answer OP's original question: There are plenty of makers of mid-market stereo (2-channel) gear left, and prices and features are all over the place. Without more information, it's impossible to answer the original question.
Things I'd want to understand:
I think that there are really too many choices and not enough information to try to recommend anything.
Things I'd want to understand:
- What is the approximate budget?
- Is a receiver (with tuner) needed? If not listening to broadcast radio, is an integrated amplifier suitable, or can separates be considered?
- OP wanted to get something with the same sound quality, but what are some adjectives that can help guide us who are trying to respond?
- Are there any styling or brand requirements? Everything these days has electronic displays, but what knobs and buttons are important?
- Are any post-1970s features important? Bluetooth or other network music reception? Turntable input? Subwoofer output?
I think that there are really too many choices and not enough information to try to recommend anything.
A few months ago I bought something I thought was not made anymore; a brand new Marantz two channel power amp. What was strange was that it was listed under their HT section. (Yes I know it can be used with HT setups) Anyway the MM 7025 has plenty of power at 140wpc and according to Marantz, even though they dont rate it, can easily handle 4 ohm speakers. It is absolutely transparent and does not color the sound in any way that I can hear. I also have some older amps like a Sony 3200, a Sony TA 330ES and a 10 year old Onkyo M 282. They all sound fine but I seem to like the 330ES and Marantz a bit better than the rest.
The 7025 lists at $999 but I looked around and found the best deal on Ebay from Crutchfield on an open box unit. It came with the same warranty as a new one and was discounted to $799. The quality is really really nice. It is the second newer Marantz item I have bought the last few years. I bought a NR1608 4K HT receiver a few years ago and it has been flawless. Denon has brought the Marantz brand a long way from the dark days of 30 years ago and they are well worth considering.
I have been using the 7025 with early 90s Kenwood separates.....they were still really good quality, had black brushed aluminum face plates and best of all, remote controls. I know the modern preference is for pre amps with no displays and only basic controls but I cant hear any difference and I love the remotes. I still have a silver 70s Marantz 3200/104 stack in the bedroom but the stack I use more is another Kenwood pre amp and tuner with the 330ES. Is something from the 90s vintage? I could care less actually. I like what appeals to my senses......the classic look of good quality vintage gear along with how good it sounds when in good condition. I dont judge old speakers until I hear them rebuilt and/or recapped. I like a lot of new speakers but prefer the form factor of older ones. The 7025 powers the Imperial 6s for two channel music (the Marantz SACD player under the 1608 gets used very rarely) and the NR 1608 runs the HT speakers and sub.
I never discount something because of how new or how old it is......if I like it, I buy it.
The 7025 lists at $999 but I looked around and found the best deal on Ebay from Crutchfield on an open box unit. It came with the same warranty as a new one and was discounted to $799. The quality is really really nice. It is the second newer Marantz item I have bought the last few years. I bought a NR1608 4K HT receiver a few years ago and it has been flawless. Denon has brought the Marantz brand a long way from the dark days of 30 years ago and they are well worth considering.
I have been using the 7025 with early 90s Kenwood separates.....they were still really good quality, had black brushed aluminum face plates and best of all, remote controls. I know the modern preference is for pre amps with no displays and only basic controls but I cant hear any difference and I love the remotes. I still have a silver 70s Marantz 3200/104 stack in the bedroom but the stack I use more is another Kenwood pre amp and tuner with the 330ES. Is something from the 90s vintage? I could care less actually. I like what appeals to my senses......the classic look of good quality vintage gear along with how good it sounds when in good condition. I dont judge old speakers until I hear them rebuilt and/or recapped. I like a lot of new speakers but prefer the form factor of older ones. The 7025 powers the Imperial 6s for two channel music (the Marantz SACD player under the 1608 gets used very rarely) and the NR 1608 runs the HT speakers and sub.
I never discount something because of how new or how old it is......if I like it, I buy it.
We seem to have lost the OP -- no posts in this thread since the first as far as I can tell. Agree strongly that he needs to provide more info: 1) budget, 2) type of music listened to, 3) does he use vintage features like loudness?, 4) speakers used and volume level listened to.
Agree with a prior post that we should focus on specific modern recommendations since that is what he is asking for. That said, "grass is not greener" experiences with new can also be relevant.
My experience is that there is a lot of truth to new equipment not being repairable, due to proprietary circuit boards that manufacturers no longer produce. My Emotiva UMC-200 AV preamp, for example, sounded very good. After a couple years, though, some caps in the power supply failed. To Emotiva's credit, they provided upgraded cap specs and I was able to buy third party caps and repair it myself. A year or two later, the HDMI board failed (it wouldn't sync HDMI, but far worse than that, there was no sound at all in any mode for any source). I corresponded with Emotiva -- boards no longer available and can't be repaired. I had to sell it for scrap. Have seen the same with Denon, and Yamaha - they typically do not stock propriety boards for equipment once its out of production and warranty period. The simpler you keep modern (e.g. analog 2-channel), the more likely it will be repairable long-term. I prefer external DAC's, and external streaming to anything built-in for that reason. Less chance of it going obsolete also (certainly the case for streaming, firmware updates also stop when units get old).
Hopefully the OP will provide more info. Hoping also that people will say what brand and model they are using now that sounds as good as or better than their vintage (a few have been specific about brand/model, but many have not).
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michaelm101
Active Member
Never thought there would be almost 100 replies...Thanks all!
--Budget: $750--$1000
--No tuner required. Integrated or separates are OK.
--Warm, fat, transparent, crisp...Almost forgot, punchy!
--I love the 70s silver face stuff. Some of the all black stuff was cool, too, particularly some of the Yamaha Natural Sound stuff that came around the 1980s.
--Big volume knobs with slight soft "clicks/detents" type of feel. Knobs that STOP at min & max setting. No continuous rotation of the knobs, please.
--NO DIGITAL LED SCREENS, NO LED NUMERALS, NO LED DISPLAYS, NO LED ANYTHING PLEASE
--Bluetooth not required. Phono ok, but not required. I record phonographs onto my Alesis Masterlink, then keep them on the HD or burn them to CD.
--Primary input sources
1) PC HD stored wav & flac files,
2) Commercial channels of streamed musical content (Music Choice, Spectrum, Pandora, etc)
3) Alesis Masterlink, HD based mastering deck, that also plays & burns CDs.
--Musical styles played: Classic Rock, Rock, Classical, Jazz, Contemporary, Instrumental
--I use "loudness" control when in background music mode. GNP System 110, Vandersteen 2ce.
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That describes my B&K ex4420 Mosfet amp. Although, I'd use the terms smooth and full in place of warm and fat.
Check out Odyssey Audio. You can get his amps in many anodized colors, black, silver, blue, gold, etc. And you can specify which parts you want. The 110wpc Khartago starts at $1000. And even if you didn't get any options, it's still a custom built, high-current, Class A/AB, high-end design, and Klaus will tune it to be warm, or even not so warm, depending on your needs. Odysseys aren't exactly inexpensive, but they are for what you get.
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