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Crown Amps, the hype is real!

Under most situations, that's all you need.
Perhaps for you. Most definitely not for me. Actually, an understanding of limited separation is what led me to using attenuators with a CDP back in 2001 - and later determined my current preamp choice.

A great phono cartridge might get you 30dB... at 1kHz, and dropping from there.
A not too frequently discussed advantage to digital formats without such limits.

Ok, what's "quality of resolution"?
Lack of distortion with a natural sense of openness - "air". Compare using cymbals, chimes, triangles or other percussive instruments with lots of upper octave energy. One sounds natural. The other smears that reality.

So... he agrees how 0.01% of all music sounds to some other folks?
Huh?

And he makes amplifiers that are just as sonically neutral as the majority of amplifiers on the market?
Vastly more so. It is apparent we continue to have very different points of reference.

Coincidence is not correlation, nor causation. What the Fines understood isn't clear at all. That studio had a variety of new and used gear.
You have no idea. One of my mentors knew Wilma Fine Cozart. And how discriminating her hearing was.

No, but my experience would have no bearing
Quite evident observation. :)
 
I have a Crown XTI2000 as well, I bought mine used, so maybe it's not working 100%. But I have no reason to suspect anything wrong with it, everything works and functions as it should. But mine has a low level hiss that's just not present in any of my other amps. I've designated mine to dual subwoofer duty. Which its actually very suitable for thanks to ample power, and software DSP.
 
Funnily enough I needed more grunt for the 15" woofers in my DIY speakers. I found the fairly inexpensive Behringer KM750 to do the job quite nicely. I disconnected the noisy fan that doesn't actually seem necessary. It's left on 24/7. 100WPC into 8 ohms is sufficient for my needs :)
 
You're confusing frequency response with ringing. Again, your square wave test is just an indicator of the properties of the output inductor and Zobel, which are after the negative feedback. Many amps have a damping resistor across the output inductor, this will reduce the "running on" you see from a square wave test- but none of this matters at audible frequencies.

Got any references to studies that show humans perceive ultrasound as "warmth"?

And what if the amp has no feedback devices like you're talking about on the output? Designing an amp without inductors and resistors and caps on the output isn't hard, and I think it's reasonable to argue it's not even desirable.

I'm fine with disagreeing with Pass, as he often points out he's "in the entertainment industry". I don't use gear to be entertained by it or its designer, I use gear to be entertained by the *music*.



Pass deceptively doesn't show how his testing would have looked at 20dB or more of negative feedback, as the higher order distortion products would have been reduced. Hood's graph that he borrows clearly shows this. Pass goes on to reveal that his approach is just a preference, with no real argument to explain why.

None of this is meant to disparage any of Pass's designs. But there's a lot of hype going on.

The thing I've always found most fascinating about that article was his comment that, anecdotally, he has found that one third of people prefer some 2nd harmonic THD, a third prefer 3rd, and the last third prefer none at all.



It's actually a clever idea, albeit tricky to pull off. It avoids the issue of thermal dynamic distortion from chasing the optimal bias point, which can indeed be an "elephant in the room" with poor sound from typical Class AB biasing schemes. Obviously I can't speak to your personal experience and impressions, though.

In Nelson's Burning Amp lecture on Selected Topics on Push-pull Topologies from 2016 he provides numerous actual measurements comparing open loop and negative feedback on the same topology, which happens to be the topology the F5 and XA25 are based on. The measurements make it clear that, though total distortion is down, the complexity of the distortion increases.

The best way to avoid thermal distortion is to not use BJTs. It's an unavoidable problem with them on account of their minority charge carrier properties that concentrate the passing current into a small area on the die along with their negative temperature coefficient characteristics. FETs are much better in general, being majority carrier devices, with laterals being virtually immune to temperature.
 
This thing puts out 475 watts per channel.
Even at 40%... that's loud.

40% travel on the preamp doesn't mean 40% output power. Even if 100% on the preamp happened to jive with amp input sensitivity to get 100% power output, volume controls just don't work that way. Half travel on the volume control is approximately 10% of maximum signal passing through it. I'd be surprised if that 475wpc amp was breaking 30 watts output power. If you have even halfway accurate power meters in a system you'd probably be surprised how little power you normally use.

As for the whole feedback thing, strictly on paper more feedback = more better. The ears tend to not always agree. I really suspect this is a big part of the tubes vs solid state sound argument. Tubes rarely use more than about 20db of feedback in the power amp stage and solid state typically runs a lot more. There are certainly enough people in the zero feedback low power direct heated triode camp that will argue zero feedback is the only correct amount. I've got one amp that runs right around 20db feedback, and another of basically the same design that runs about 12. The one with more feedback is more accurate, but frankly not as pleasing to listen to. Measures considerably worse too. The human ear is regrettably not as easy to please as a distortion analyzer.
 
My Soundcraftsman MA 5002 could not handle the Infinity Renassaince 80's I recently bought, on another members advice I purchased the XLS 1502 and have not looked back. I eventually want a Mc Intosh but for the foreseeable future I am very happy, clean power and though my 54 yr. old ears would not be considered audiophile I am loving how everything sounds and am happy I purchased the crown.
 
I have been using a Crown 810 for years now. I bought it used for $100. It drives AR SRT-380 speakers. I really like the sound. I am too old now to lift the amplifier anymore. There is a huge amount of steel in that transformer. It weighs 50 lbs. I may have to get another Crown that uses Class D output and a switching power supply so that I can move it around. It puts out a little over 450 wpc into my 4 ohm speakers. It is not pretty to look at. Sure makes beautiful music.
 

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I have a DC150A that I thought sounded good. (Note kittens in avatar.) But I'm not sure if I ever listened to it critically. Just casually. However, the kittens give it two paws up. (It keeps them warm.)
 
70s era Crowns were horrible when run full range. Had a D150 as a teenager. Powerful, reliable but hard and closed in sounding. Nice amp for subs, but...

For me, characterized by high order harmonics given its use of first gen op amps, largely class B operation and dependence on lots of corrective feedback.

I've also owned one of their current switchers, an XLS1500. Very different character. Nice midrange, no hardness but no apparent extension and air at the top either. Uppermost harmonics hit a brick wall and die. A current Hypex Ncore fares better in that regard.

I have extensive experience with 80s and 90s crown professional amplifiers. I agree with your assessment. A few weeks ago, I was at an Imagine Dragons concert, right next to a remote tower array. I saw the amps, Crown digital switching. I thought the bass to be slow, flabby, really cheap sounding. Didnt like it at all.
 
I have a Crown PSA-2 that had an interesting life. It was bought in 1981 along with 19 others for a couple of amp racks going out on tour with Emmy Lou Harris. One night mine cooked a channel. The amp was swapped for another and mine went back to the Springfield Sound warehouse and stayed in its box for another 3 years. I offered my buddy $300.00 for it. SOLD! I shipped it back to Crown and it was fixed and updated. About 7 years later the fan started coming on and going off so back to a local shop with great reviews. I was told the power caps were dying. He rebuilt the power supply and tweaked some things and replaced another 12 -15 caps. It's been sounding great ever since. Tight bass, clear mids and crisp highs. I use 2 pairs of KEF 104aB's (recently re-capped) and go between using them at 4 ohms or 16 ohms depending on my mood. At 4 ohms they kick ass and sometimes scare me. At 16 ohms it sounds like a quiet tube amp. I mostly listen to vinyl and Can hear lots of detail. I don't usually run it louder than low 80's dB. irritates my tinitus.
 
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