Dac Scam Video
- Thread starter nefertem7
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nefertem7
Active Member
After watching his other video I think he has a background in Mastering Audio Engineer he has online classes
Im sure, then, he carefully selects his gear from Ali Express. I have three DAC's in the rack of very different design, and hearing the difference is as easy a turning a knob.
nefertem7
Active Member
If you watch the video he said that companies need to make a profit but spending over 1000 for a DAC is spending like a drunken sailor because all the DAC converter comes from same semi conductor manufacturers the most expensive is 50 Dollars
MitchGtz
New Member
Coming back from CanJam NYC, I’m sure Ferrum and others would agree with me that the DAC chip is only a small part of the system, The results from the same chips in different architecture do in fact sound different, sometimes very different. I try not to laugh out loud (too much) when people post articles and videos of what their personal perception is, and how they wish to apply it to the world at large.
Having come from a science/perception field (color correction) and working in a recording studio, I could talk all day about what people can and can’t perceive, just in the same way Wayne Gretzky’s brain could probably perceive a few extra frames per second that helped his hockey talents, others due to training, talents they are born with or talents they worked on have different experiences with the same exact situation. I’ve even tracked how people look at color and sound when they are well fed, rested or hungry and tired. Even attitude can influence perception.
If you can’t tell the audio differences, be thankful, you may be able to enjoy a less expensive DAC and other gear, but for people who spent their professional lives differentiating, to tell them it is all in their head, I can’t help but wonder why they think others bodies/brains etc. can possibly be exactly what they perceive?
Not being fully aware of audio or color or other variables, isn’t something that people should be upset that others can do what they can’t. Even worse as we all age (if you don’t age, let me know your address to send your survivors a condolence card). One’s perception can dim and fade.
Anyway, enjoy what you can perceive, and if you think that you can’t hear or see a difference, enjoy the savings, but to stand on a soapbox saying that there isn’t a difference for others, is quite foolish.
Having come from a science/perception field (color correction) and working in a recording studio, I could talk all day about what people can and can’t perceive, just in the same way Wayne Gretzky’s brain could probably perceive a few extra frames per second that helped his hockey talents, others due to training, talents they are born with or talents they worked on have different experiences with the same exact situation. I’ve even tracked how people look at color and sound when they are well fed, rested or hungry and tired. Even attitude can influence perception.
If you can’t tell the audio differences, be thankful, you may be able to enjoy a less expensive DAC and other gear, but for people who spent their professional lives differentiating, to tell them it is all in their head, I can’t help but wonder why they think others bodies/brains etc. can possibly be exactly what they perceive?
Not being fully aware of audio or color or other variables, isn’t something that people should be upset that others can do what they can’t. Even worse as we all age (if you don’t age, let me know your address to send your survivors a condolence card). One’s perception can dim and fade.
Anyway, enjoy what you can perceive, and if you think that you can’t hear or see a difference, enjoy the savings, but to stand on a soapbox saying that there isn’t a difference for others, is quite foolish.
Absofreakinglutely the best way for me as well. I've owned and listened to 6 DACs and the best two sounding units had the same chipset in them. I'll go with what my ears tell me every time.
I've heard a system with Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 8's ($27K) that sounded mediocre.
The first time I heard my brother's system it gave me goose bumps. He paid less than a thousand bucks for it.
Trust your ears.
Semanon
Super Member
I’d say a big part, but, yes, the architecture makes a big difference, too. A crappy chip will never sound good, and a good chip with mediocre architecture will sound good (not great). It takes both to make a great DAC.
Stavro
Active Member
He is an idiot. What matters as much as the chip is the implementation - meaning power supplies, shielding, component placement, topology, etc. He is entitled to his opinion, as are we all.
Let’s move it to a realm we can all understand a little better - analog. Compare volume pots to stepped attenuators. They cost more and sound better - it is a part of the implementation.
Mart Mccall
Well-Known Member
Mostly agree with him. Not all DACs are identical in performance, but most are. When it's transferring a varying voltage representing digital data to a varying voltage representing an analogue waveform there's only one right answer and most get it.
Differences tend to be due to the analogue filter i,e frequency response. I am too old to hear the slight FR differences at high frequencies.
To really 'trust your ears' you need to do a comparison without knowing which DAC you have in play.
IMV the DAC is the least consequential component and I would not spend big money (i.e thousands) to buy one.
Differences tend to be due to the analogue filter i,e frequency response. I am too old to hear the slight FR differences at high frequencies.
To really 'trust your ears' you need to do a comparison without knowing which DAC you have in play.
IMV the DAC is the least consequential component and I would not spend big money (i.e thousands) to buy one.
I just close my eyes.
Having tried to teach over 2500 people to "critically listen" in a classroom/lab environment I approve of this post
Heck, even people that CAN critically listen well (long-time amp and speaker designers, even), sometimes disagree on the small details of what they hear. Just had that happen here, while we're setting up for Southwest Audio Fest. Two different variations of the same speaker (very subtle crossover differences, in component values and inductor/capacitor types, and such). One very talented designer listening, preferred one, while another preferred the other, for somewhat different reasons- perceived instrument "body" and "fullness", vs. perceived "detail" and/or "spatial characteristics", and such. And it varied with musical choice- for me, I thought one was slightly better on some tracks, and the other was better on others. However- the difference in response, almost couldn't be seen on a "normal" frequency response graph- the response differed LESS than a half dB, anywhere in the spectrum.
In short, no two people hear exactly the same. That's why, even at the highest-performance levels of audio, we still have- and rightfully so- different equipment with slightly different "flavors", of tonal balance, perceived transient response and such.
Mind you- IME, at least- as you go up the "audio food chain"- the very best gear DOES start to usually sound more similar. There are some outliers- but as more and more of the usual problems in sound reproduction are "solved" to greater degrees of precision- there is usually somewhat of a convergence of tonal balance and transient behavior. But- even then- as mentioned above- I just had demonstrated to me, what even a quarter-dB of response variation CAN do, under certain situations, in making the experience of listening to a speaker system, seem astonishingly different. Differences so small, that many people would scoff and say "there's no way that's audible". These are differences small enough in objective magnitude, that usually shouldn't be that apparent. But- when everything else gets that close to optimal- they become more relatively apparent. Even to the proverbial "casual listeners", quite a few times, I've seen- if they're willing to just sit down and pay complete attention to what's being played...
In some ways- it's maddening. About the time you think "I'm done, the important problems are solved in my system"- suddenly, some previously-overshadowed subtle anomaly comes to the forefront, begging for attention. That's one of the main reasons that for some people, upgrades are never truly done- and what gives good audio equipment designers, at least some degree of job security...
Regards,
Gordon.
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