damping factor, that important?

[MrHeadfirst]

looking at amps, and i see damping factor ratings all over the place,
what would you all consider to be a good number to look for, and for anyone that has done comparison, is it really of crucial importance?

 

[TerryO]

looking at amps, and i see damping factor ratings all over the place,
what would you all consider to be a good number to look for, and for anyone that has done comparison, is it really of crucial importance?

Crucial? Not especially, it's pretty much irrelevant in the true scheme of things and certainly doesn't really tell you much about the behavior of the amp when connected to a loudspeaker. I would even say that there is some evidence that a high damping factor may be a red flag, indicating that the amplifier may not sound very good at all. Another specification that gets more attention than it deserves, at least among properly designed amplifiers, is Total Harmonic Distortion (THD). Neither figure really tells you what you can expect to hear.

My advice, after wandering in the desert for many years, is to avoid losing any sleep over it and just judge by the "sound" of the amp in your system.

Best Regards,
TerryO

 

[ferninando]

I disagree with the above . An amps ability to control a speaker I would say is important. And the higher the # the better. No it's not the bestest mostest spec of all. It didn't used to be mentioned till the marketing folks thought it would be helpful for increased sales. But it DOES have a useful value in judging the performance of an amp. IMO. Would I buy an amp without it? yes.
But you CAN hear excess harmonic distortion especially the oddies.

 

[Ski]

IMHO the mating of an amp to a pair of speakers has much to do with damping factor. Some speakers need more damping or they sound boomy or sloppy. Some speakers need less damping or they sound sterile and shallow. It's all about finding the right combination.

 

[ehoove]

I personally think both are relevant, but the amp's synergy in the system is what matters when the dust settles. Great specs do not = Great sound in some cases.
Regards,
Jim

 

[jstang]

Dampening is very critical for some speakers....less critical for others.

My Ohm Fs speakers have very heavy cones. Because of that, they need lots of dampening factor. When I moved from an amp with 8ohm DF of 180 to an amp with 400 DF at 8ohms, I heard a big improvement in the tightness of the bass....

Also, most manufactures give DF rates for 8 ohm speakers only, you have to half that value when using 4 ohm speakers. So with my F's being 4 ohms, my amps were actual DFs of 90 and 200....

So, I agree when folks that say its a system and the needs/capabilities of the speakers/amps must be matched for the best sound.

jk

 

[whoaru99]

There are any number of well-regarded amps that don't have particularly high, in fact have pretty low, DF.

Afaik, any amp with output transformers will have pretty low DF, think McIntosh as a prime example. Based on my time here, seems not too many people challenge their ability to perform well/sound good.

There is at least one source that says DF above a certain (fairly low number) doesn't mean much, except on paper.

Certainly the comparison between different amplifiers having different damping factor is difficult at best. Because, to me, to conclude that DF is the prime cause of the difference, one pretty much has to assume that's the only difference between the two. Seldom is that the case.

 

[tarior]

There are any number of well-regarded amps that don't have particularly high, in fact have pretty low, DF.

Afaik, any amp with output transformers will have pretty low DF, think McIntosh as a prime example. Based on my time here, seems not too many people challenge their ability to perform well/sound good..

Don't forget tube amps, and cap coupled SS amps. Both of which have their adherents, neither have high damping factors.

 

[Twenty20Man]

my only experience with a high DF is my concept 16.5 something like 400..my 1250 is something like 30-50, that said, my ears prefer the sound of the 1250.i have no idea why. i think sometimes numbers are simply that numbers..i wonder if my amp and speakers will sound as good if i move to a higher elevation less air has to affect my speakers oh dear oh my

 

[cmb3366]

In my experience it really depends on the speaker you're driving. Particularly, how large is the woofer, and is it a 2-way or a 3-way. I dont like the sound of low DF amps driving small (6-8") and under woofers, as IME, they tend to sound bass shy and muddy. A much better solution in such situations is to biamp with a low DF amp on the highs, and something with high DF for taught, controlled bass and midbass on the lows.


Large woofer-2ways and 3-ways tend to be much better matches for a low DF amplifier from what I've experienced. Bass sounds natural, though not large-direct-coupled-SS tight, and the midrange sounds to have much better definition and clarity.

From what I've owned, and experimented with, I much prefer a low-DF, 'mellow' sounding amp and applicable speakers than a high DF, SS monster with all of the feedback and high order distortion that comes along for the ride. My goto amp up until this time has been a solid state Mc2100 with a DF of 11. If things go as planned it is soon to be replaced by a SET tube amp with a DF of 3... Listen to a SET with no feedback on good speakers, and all of the sudden distortion and damping factor measurements fly right out the window.

 

[geiman]

looking at amps, and i see damping factor ratings all over the place,
what would you all consider to be a good number to look for, and for anyone that has done comparison, is it really of crucial importance?

I have a Technics SE 9600 which has the feature of being able to set the damping factor up to a factor of 100.
It's useful and there is a audable difference.
When using speakers like the AR-3a with large high mass woofers the higher settings tighten up the low end, ie. better control over cone movement.
With planar speakers, I have MG-IIs, which are very highly damped, the lower settings are all that's required.
So in these two scenerios, the effect damping has on sound is kind of hard to pin down. It definitely has an effect though.
High damping with large woofers, say a 15" in a ported or vented cabinet would be a benefit.
With the MG-IIs, at higher damping setting seems to make no difference but at lower settings the sound becomes more muddy.
In the old days, we always said a damping factor of 10 gave enough transducer control for nearly all situations with conventional speakers.
High damping factors supposedly gave more control but weren't audible.
Transformer coupled tube amps generally have lower damping factors while solid state direct coupled amplifiers have much higher damping factors.

 

[Jon_Logan]

:drool: I want a Crown Delta Omega

 

[soundmotor]

Damping factors, as do distortion measurements out to 0.001%, don't tell you much about how the gear performs in actual use.

 

[Nikko75]

Damping factor is very important as it is the amplifiers resistance to output frequency response and distortion changes with varying load impedance. One of my friends (the one who designed the 308B 500watt per channel tube amp) designed two class A amps with a damping factor over 1000.

 

[soundmotor]

Damping factor is very important as it is the amplifiers resistance to output frequency response and distortion changes with varying load impedance.

It is one factor but so is the application of negative feedback. Taken by itself neither will tell you how the amplifier performs in the real world. They aren't predictive of anything except how the amplifier measures.

 

[jstang]

Heathens.... Its "dampening factor"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dampening

Main Entry:
damp·en Listen to the pronunciation of dampen
Pronunciation:
\ˈdam-pən\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
damp·ened; damp·en·ing Listen to the pronunciation of dampening \ˈdamp-niŋ, ˈdam-pə-\
Date:
1547

transitive verb 1 : to check or diminish the activity or vigor of : deaden <the heat dampened our spirits>

2 : to make damp <the shower barely dampened the ground>

3 : damp 1c

 

[Nikko75]

It is one factor but so is the application of negative feedback. Taken by itself neither will tell you how the amplifier performs in the real world. They aren't predictive of anything except how the amplifier measures.

They tell exactly how an amplifier performs providing it has a clean power source. Most electronics on a residential or city power grid have very high distortion (ie. as high as 10%) without power treatment.

 

[4.7inches]

looking at amps, and i see damping factor ratings all over the place,
what would you all consider to be a good number to look for, and for anyone that has done comparison, is it really of crucial importance?

Important, should be at least 80 all frequencys. Maybe not the single most important but one of six?

 

[soundmotor]

they tell exactly how an amplifier performs providing it has a clean power source. Most electronics on a residential or city power grid have very high distortion (ie. As high as 10%) without power treatment.

ok.

 

[4.7inches]

Damping factors, as do distortion measurements out to 0.001%, don't tell you much about how the gear performs in actual use.

Are you sure? For me amplifiers that measure well always sound better than those who doesn´t. Great screening IMO, amps that measure badly I do not even listen to/try anymore.
If you can measure it - you can hear it IMO.