Demoing original Rega Planar 3 (R200 arm)

[Wray & Ting]

Hi AKers,

I'm relatively new to vinyl, but I'm starting to get into it, and looking for a better sound. I currently own a Luxman P-406 automatic linear P-mount TT with an Ortofon 305 (conical) cart. It hasn't been a bad table, but I decided after reading a lot of upgrade threads that I should probably start with a better table, instead of upgrading the cart on my current table. I am very lucky right now to have a borrowed original Rega Planar 3 (Grado ZT+ cart) beside my Luxman to see if I want to upgrade to it. Full disclosure: the anti-skate does not currently work as is inevitable with this tonearm, and I'm aware it's considered inferior by many to the RB300 that replaced it. I have many questions, so I thought I'd put them in this thread. The first is about wow and flutter.

This is the one aspect where my Luxman is clearly performing better. Using a phone app I measured both tables (both ran a bit slow, the Luxman is adjustable) and the Luxman recorded a respectable 0.11% wow and flutter, and the Rega measured variably between 0.28% and 0.39% over several repeated tests. I confirmed this difference with a 1 kHz test tone, which revealed a barely perceptible wow on the Luxman, and a quite noticeable wow on the Rega. My first burning question is this: do Rega users feel the white upgrade belt (or simply a new belt) helps in this regard? It is unclear whether the current belt is beyond replacement age. I have no experience with round cross-section belts like the Rega, but the belt tension is very low compared to the flat belt on my Luxman (it almost slips over the sub-platter with no stretch at all), and it has a slight kink in it when removed, suggesting it may have remained parked in one spot for some time. Thanks in advance!

 

[bimasta]

I had one funky old Rega 200 arm, and two new 300's, one with pure silver VDH wire.

The 200 smoked them both. So don't dismiss it: Acos made it.

But I hate the 300 arm, Hi-Tech one-piece casting and all. So there's that to consider.

 

[Montycat]

What eventually drove me away from Rega was the speed fluctuations. However I've recently been revisiting the brand with the original Planar 2 and R200 arm. I like the arm and fixed the anti-skate belt. The speed issue is improved with a new double metal pulley and machined metal subplatter from Tangospinner. Of course a new belt doesn't hurt plus I'm using a ceramic spindle bearing well.

 

[Wray & Ting]

I had one funky old Rega 200 arm, and two new 300's, one with pure silver VDH wire.

The 200 smoked them both. So don't dismiss it: Acos made it.

But I hate the 300 arm, Hi-Tech one-piece casting and all. So there's that to consider.

I don't have preconceived notions about which arm is better, but it seems many more people prefer the RB300. Good to hear from someone who sees things the other way! I hope I like this arm as well; for now all I can say for sure is the table as a whole sounds better than my old one.

What eventually drove me away from Rega was the speed fluctuations. However I've recently been revisiting the brand with the original Planar 2 and R200 arm. I like the arm and fixed the anti-skate belt. The speed issue is improved with a new double metal pulley and machined metal subplatter from Tangospinner. Of course a new belt doesn't hurt plus I'm using a ceramic spindle bearing well.

It's interesting to me that even a brand with a great reputation for introductory audiophile turntables like Rega still has to pick and choose which design elements to build around, while compromising on others. Those upgrades sound impressive! I certainly don't have the budget for the table, new belt and cart, plus upgrades, but knowing they are available for adding on later is reassuring. I just looked up Tangospinner; their prices are very reasonable for the apparent quality of their components.

 

[Crab33]

I don't have preconceived notions about which arm is better, but it seems many more people prefer the RB300. Good to hear from someone who sees things the other way! I hope I like this arm as well; for now all I can say for sure is the table as a whole sounds better than my old one.

I like the R200 arm on my Planar 3 - it looks and feels lovely, has an SME-type detachable headshell and it has given me great performances with a range of cartridges (some high-compliance). The anti-skating is the real pain and mine is now frozen at around 1.5, so I only use cartridges on it with VTFs around this value.

I find that the belt of the Planar 3 needs replacing every few years. Recently, my 1982 model had serious speed issues and I had the motor replaced - the speed is OK now but I can hear some motor noise between tracks.

In comparing the Luxman and Rega, don't forget that that the fitted cartridges will make heck of a difference. For a fair comparison between the decks, they'd have to be fitted with the same cartridge (and one that is suitable for both arms).

 

[WaynerN]

The AS feature of the R200 will be broken. It's belt controlled and the belt is dried up, cracked and in pieces. With a different headshell and fixed anti-skate it could be a nice arm. Personally I'd pass on it due to my experiences with it. ($150 down the drain).

 

[Greenie]

I reverted to the R200 arm after trying a couple of other regas, a handbuilt wooden item and a Jelco SA-370H.

It's worth getting the bias fixed on the R200, if like me you have stubby fingers there are places which will do it for you. In the uk the repair cost me £55 inc the cost of a new bias belt and spacer.

I had real hum problems using a Grado Gold on my Rega.

With the usual caution regarding phone apps those fluctuations look well out of spec. All my Regas have been able to record under 2% w&f, with carefull setup even a bog standard Planar 2 offers about 1.5 - 1.8%.

Rega belts continue to amuse and entertain me. They produce a wide spectrum of results in w&f and speed accuracy, and not always what you expect.
The white belt offered me slightly worse w&f but nailed it at 33.3 speedwise. A generic used black item records w&f repeatedly as low as 1.1% but speed is 32.9, though stable.
I mostly use the Edwards Audio blue belt, around 1.6% w&f and stable 33.2 speed.

The ceramic bearing seemed to offer little improvement for me. The aluminum sub platter seemed to offer less speed fluctuations, and it looks nice with the acrylic or glass platter.

All in my subjective opinion of course.

 

[Wray & Ting]

I like the R200 arm on my Planar 3 - it looks and feels lovely, has an SME-type detachable headshell and it has given me great performances with a range of cartridges (some high-compliance). The anti-skating is the real pain and mine is now frozen at around 1.5, so I only use cartridges on it with VTFs around this value.

I find that the belt of the Planar 3 needs replacing every few years. Recently, my 1982 model had serious speed issues and I had the motor replaced - the speed is OK now but I can hear some motor noise between tracks.

In comparing the Luxman and Rega, don't forget that that the fitted cartridges will make heck of a difference. For a fair comparison between the decks, they'd have to be fitted with the same cartridge (and one that is suitable for both arms).

You're absolutely right that I'm not comparing apples to apples. The Grado, even with a likely worn stylus, is superior to the lightly used Ortofon. The Rega does seem inherently better in ways that probably don't include the cartridge; it is enormously less affected by external vibrations (e.g. footfalls) when placed in precisely the same spot the Luxman previously sat.

The AS feature of the R200 will be broken. It's belt controlled and the belt is dried up, cracked and in pieces. With a different headshell and fixed anti-skate it could be a nice arm. Personally I'd pass on it due to my experiences with it. ($150 down the drain).

Yes, the anti-skate is broken. I'm not sure what headshell it has right now; it looks black and generic.

I reverted to the R200 arm after trying a couple of other regas, a handbuilt wooden item and a Jelco SA-370H.

It's worth getting the bias fixed on the R200, if like me you have stubby fingers there are places which will do it for you. In the uk the repair cost me £55 inc the cost of a new bias belt and spacer.

I had real hum problems using a Grado Gold on my Rega.

With the usual caution regarding phone apps those fluctuations look well out of spec. All my Regas have been able to record under 2% w&f, with carefull setup even a bog standard Planar 2 offers about 1.5 - 1.8%.

Rega belts continue to amuse and entertain me. They produce a wide spectrum of results in w&f and speed accuracy, and not always what you expect.
The white belt offered me slightly worse w&f but nailed it at 33.3 speedwise. A generic used black item records w&f repeatedly as low as 1.1% but speed is 32.9, though stable.
I mostly use the Edwards Audio blue belt, around 1.6% w&f and stable 33.2 speed.

The ceramic bearing seemed to offer little improvement for me. The aluminum sub platter seemed to offer less speed fluctuations, and it looks nice with the acrylic or glass platter.

All in my subjective opinion of course.

If I do decide to buy this table, repairing the anti-skate would be a top priority. I'm reasonably confident I can do the repair myself, and the slightly-too-long belt is available to me from a UK eBay seller. I haven't noticed too much in the way of hum from this Grado cartridge, but I'd say the noise floor is slightly higher than the Luxman. If I were listening quite loudly, it may be audible between tracks, but I don't think it's something I can pick up even in quieter passages. I'll take another listen.

I agree that the phone app's accuracy in measuring small deviations in rotational speed is probably a little suspect, but the difference in measurements between the two tables should be real (and my listening to test tones confirms the Rega is worse). Hopefully the wow measurements can be brought down to the level of my Luxman (and also keep the speed close to 33.33) with a new belt. I could certainly see myself replacing the spindle pulley and sub-platter to get that number down further, seeing as people are claiming to hear improvements.

What do people here prefer for mats on glass platters? The mat I have for this table is felt backed with deteriorating foam rubber and is no longer flat. I've been playing right on the glass so far and it seems ok.

 

[bimasta]

but it seems many more people prefer the RB300

And many more have the RB300, so their preference means little. And the RB300 had a Tsunami of ecstatic approval from reviewers, mags and users, thrilled by the Hi-Tech one-piece casting — the Latest must be the Greatest, right? How many other arms did they compare it to? Did they sell their £1,000 arms because it bought the 300 plus ood£es of cash to spare? I doubt it.

20 or so years ago I did an arm-testing binge. Took a year, but I assembled maybe 8 very highly-regarded tonearms. They ranged from old classics like the SME 3009 II and Ittok, to the then-new and Hi-Tech SME 309, complete with Damping Trough.

The RB300, even rewired with VDH Pure Monocrystal Silver, was the first to go. Others that didn't make the cut were Technics RB500/501, and the Grado Lab Reference Master Signature Classic (I lost track of the superlatives Joe laid on).

The SME 309 only finished Third — a standard Syrinx PU3 beat it hands-down. No contest.

The 309 beat the Ittok — more clarity, firmer bass and melodic lines. So I considered the Ittok dispensable and a candidate for experiment. I replaced dozens solder joints and plug connections with a single-wire run from cart-pin-outs to phono-pre-ins — and it was just good standard tonearm wire, nothing fancy like Cardas, and the electrons weren't all line up like soldiers ready to charge. Yet I liked it more than the 309 — so much so I sold the SME. Hated to part with it, loved the sexy look — but Music ruled.

So the Syrinx and rewired Ittok ruled the roost — but the humble old SME 3009 kept hanging in there!

Since then I got an Odyssey. Don't have all the others to compare anymore, but if anything is better I want it.

Keep in mind that "judging" a tonearm means judging "Nothingness" — if one arm has a fantastic characteristic the others all lack, it's probably a wicked distortion.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I don't have preconceived notions about which arm is better, but it seems many more people prefer the RB300. Good to hear from someone who sees things the other way! I hope I like this arm as well; for now all I can say for sure is the table as a whole sounds better than my old one.



It's interesting to me that even a brand with a great reputation for introductory audiophile turntables like Rega still has to pick and choose which design elements to build around, while compromising on others. Those upgrades sound impressive! I certainly don't have the budget for the table, new belt and cart, plus upgrades, but knowing they are available for adding on later is reassuring. I just looked up Tangospinner; their prices are very reasonable for the apparent quality of their components.

I wish the R 200 tonearm would be produced again, both as an option on Rega turntables, and sold separately as a standalone tonearm. This is needed at a good price point.

 

[Wray & Ting]

And many more have the RB300, so their preference means little. [...] Keep in mind that "judging" a tonearm means judging "Nothingness" — if one arm has a fantastic characteristic the others all lack, it's probably a wicked distortion.

You've clearly done a ton of research with a myriad of tonearms! I'll try to keep an open mind and listen to different setups when I get the chance. And that's a great reminder about the value of neutrality and faithful reproduction. Sometimes it's not what you're hearing, but what you're not hearing that is significant.

I wish the R 200 tonearm would be produced again, both as an option on Rega turntables, and sold separately as a standalone tonearm. This is needed at a good price point.

Buyers generally do like to pick from options when presented. It seems to me that the straight black tonearm has almost become something of a brand aesthetic for Rega since its introduction.

What cartridges do people pair with their R200 tonearms? Based on the way the Rega sounds now with the Grado, I'd probably aim to replace it with something brighter sounding, as opposed to warm.

 

[Crab33]

What cartridges do people pair with their R200 tonearms? Based on the way the Rega sounds now with the Grado, I'd probably aim to replace it with something brighter sounding, as opposed to warm.

I've used a variety of cartridges on the R200 and it seems to have coped very well with most of them. I started with the Ortofon VMS20E MkII (which was recommended for the Planar 2/3 by the Hi-Fi press back in the day), but it didn't produce spectacular results. The one that is stunning is the Ortofon 520 MkII, which is my favourite cartridge on my Rega. I also use the Denon DL-110 on it, which works nicely, and the Goldring 2400 sounded nice.

 

[Wray & Ting]

I've used a variety of cartridges on the R200 and it seems to have coped very well with most of them. I started with the Ortofon VMS20E MkII (which was recommended for the Planar 2/3 by the Hi-Fi press back in the day), but it didn't produce spectacular results. The one that is stunning is the Ortofon 520 MkII, which is my favourite cartridge on my Rega. I also use the Denon DL-110 on it, which works nicely, and the Goldring 2400 sounded nice.

Great, thanks for these recommendations! I decided to google the 520 MkII and stumbled on a detailed review of this cart on a Rega Planar 3 with the R200 arm... wait a minute, haha

 

[Crab33]

Great, thanks for these recommendations! I decided to google the 520 MkII and stumbled on a detailed review of this cart on a Rega Planar 3 with the R200 arm... wait a minute, haha

Yes, that's me So you can see my enthusiasm for it. If you're interested in that particular cartridge, it's worth noting its other names - Ortofon Vinyl Master Red and Music Hall Magic 3 - as shopping around under all these names is worthwhile.

 

[j!m]

Attention: shameless plug...

The Rega belt is, well, crap. And most rubber belts have a 15-year shelf life (at best) under ideal conditions (not exposed to atmosphere, not exposed to UV and not under tension). So, the belt is shot. Pretty much guaranteed.

I own a Planar 3 and know this first hand. I'm also an engineer, so I went out and found belts, of SEVERAL materials (not just "high purity silicone", although that is included) and created a kit with six different belt materials so you can see what works best for your table/system/room /EARS. It costs less than one white belt from Rega.

I sold a few on Vinyl Engine and many more via eBay. PM me if interested, or check out eBay. I can sell slightly lower direct if the fees are avoided...

Long story short: what the differing materials do, is effect the speed deviation (W&F I guess you could say) but they do not "correct" speed. I had a purchaser send back an order recently because he was under the impression that different materials would alter the speed (I think he had a P9?). Usually Regas run fast, and the "cheap fix" is to wrap layers of vinyl electrical tape onto the OD of the plastic sub platter to alter the ratio a bit and bring the speed in line. I believe the fancy aluminum ones address this size discrepancy, so they run at true speed.

And plan to dump, clean and re-oil the bearing. That's going to need attention as well. I'd only bother replacing the ball if it has a flat spot personally.

 

[BillWojo]

I've not had either tonearm but that R200 really looks sweet. A non detachable headshell is a no go for me.

BillWojo

 

[Wray & Ting]

Yes, that's me So you can see my enthusiasm for it. If you're interested in that particular cartridge, it's worth noting its other names - Ortofon Vinyl Master Red and Music Hall Magic 3 - as shopping around under all these names is worthwhile.

It seems the styli are fairly easy to find online at least. I haven't dug too deep for compatible cart yet, but I feel like I need to take a crack at addressing the speed consistency first.

Attention: shameless plug...

The Rega belt is, well, crap. And most rubber belts have a 15-year shelf life (at best) under ideal conditions (not exposed to atmosphere, not exposed to UV and not under tension). So, the belt is shot. Pretty much guaranteed.

I own a Planar 3 and know this first hand. I'm also an engineer, so I went out and found belts, of SEVERAL materials (not just "high purity silicone", although that is included) and created a kit with six different belt materials so you can see what works best for your table/system/room /EARS. It costs less than one white belt from Rega.

And plan to dump, clean and re-oil the bearing. That's going to need attention as well. I'd only bother replacing the ball if it has a flat spot personally.

This is helpful info on the belt situation, and I may take you up on a six belt pack. Can you elaborate on what you said about the bearing? Am I able to clean and maintain the table's bearing in lieu of replacing it, assuming it's in need?

I've not had either tonearm but that R200 really looks sweet. A non detachable headshell is a no go for me.

BillWojo

I know nothing about headshells - is this to say that the R200 can only use the original headshell and that they're not meant to be interchanged?

 

[BillWojo]

Looks like it takes a regular detachable SME headshell. I'd be surprised it it didn't.

BillWojo

 

[Montycat]

The R200 uses a standard SME type headshell. You can use many different brands on it. BillWojo above was saying that's a good thing, and I agree.

 

[Wray & Ting]

Looks like it takes a regular detachable SME headshell. I'd be surprised it it didn't.

BillWojo

The R200 uses a standard SME type headshell. You can use many different brands on it.

OK, I misunderstood the significance of

A non detachable headshell is a no go for me.

in thinking it was referring to the R200 setup.