Demoing original Rega Planar 3 (R200 arm)

[Montycat]

Yeah. All later Rega arms are non detachable. The R200 was made by Arcos; later ones were inhouse designs.

 

[j!m]

This is helpful info on the belt situation, and I may take you up on a six belt pack. Can you elaborate on what you said about the bearing? Am I able to clean and maintain the table's bearing in lieu of replacing it, assuming it's in need?

The bearing can be removed from the plinth- large nut underneath. Pull it out the top and invert it on something you don't mind making a mess of... There is a steel ball in the bottom, probably stuck there, along with some nasty oil I bet. Fill the well with Acetone, let sit, and dump a few times. The ball will come out eventually.

Then after cleaning the well (q-tips and acetone) and ball (acetone on a rag), drop the ball in and fill the well with the lube of your choice. Note that once the shaft is inserted into the well, it will drive oil out- it will make a mess. But, it is important (to me at least) that the shaft be completely surrounded by oil in the well. So, you insert, clean, insert a bit more, clean etc. until its all the way in, and no extra oil is coming out. Put it back together and enjoy.

I think I said earlier, unless the ball has a flat spot, I wouldn't bother replacing it. If it IS flat, then you can decide what material to use. I believe it is a standard size ball so you should be able to get virtually any material you want.

 

[Wray & Ting]

Yeah. All later Rega arms are non detachable. The R200 was made by Arcos; later ones were inhouse designs.

OK, now I get it! No doubt the move on Rega's part was a conscious design concept that they still believe in if they've never looked back.

The bearing can be removed from the plinth- large nut underneath. Pull it out the top and invert it on something you don't mind making a mess of... There is a steel ball in the bottom, probably stuck there, along with some nasty oil I bet. Fill the well with Acetone, let sit, and dump a few times. The ball will come out eventually.

Then after cleaning the well (q-tips and acetone) and ball (acetone on a rag), drop the ball in and fill the well with the lube of your choice. Note that once the shaft is inserted into the well, it will drive oil out- it will make a mess. But, it is important (to me at least) that the shaft be completely surrounded by oil in the well. So, you insert, clean, insert a bit more, clean etc. until its all the way in, and no extra oil is coming out. Put it back together and enjoy.

I think I said earlier, unless the ball has a flat spot, I wouldn't bother replacing it. If it IS flat, then you can decide what material to use. I believe it is a standard size ball so you should be able to get virtually any material you want.

Thanks for the thorough explanation. Most of the bearings I encounter are totally sealed, so they just get chucked and replaced. If I buy this table (inching closer I think!) this will be one of the first things I do. This table measured a bit slow with a cell phone app (33.1 rpm or so) so maybe a clean bearing will remove a bit of friction there; seems less likely to me it would also reduce variations in speed, but you never know. This table has been seldom used and well cared for, bought as a 3rd or 4th stringer as I understand, but it's likely in need of maintenance on account of the years if not the mileage.

 

[Wray & Ting]

I just ran the wow app again immediately after finishing the B side of Kenny Burrell: God Bless The Child, and it measured 33.32 rpm, albeit with a 0.33% wow estimate. The (average) speed seems perfect once it's warmed up.

 

[j!m]

Both warm-up (of the oil) and run-in (of the belt) seem to reduce tolerance on the speed ("wow and flutter"), so it's good to pre-run the table a while before dropping a disc on.

Also, when a belt sits static for a while (not sure how long this takes to occur, and probably depends on belt material and other factors), it takes a "set", and laid on the table top after removal, it shows the pattern around the motor pulley and sub platter. So, if your table is sitting for a while, turn it on well before use, to both heat the oil and take the set out of the belt. I assume this is true of all belt drive tables and not limited to Rega. But my table (Planar 3), which sat for quite a while after a move, is where I discovered this, and led me to find other belt materials to try out.

And I think I said it already, but good belts, under "ideal" storage, are good for 15 years from manufacture (not sale) date*. Stored on the table, waiting to be driven, probably 1/3 that or less. I think using it daily, or nearly so, will improve the performance overall.

*I actually include the cure date of the belts I sell so you know what you are buying. I spoke with (e-mail actually) the manufacturer to get this first hand. Other pre-packaged belts? I never see it...

 

[Wray & Ting]

Well folks, I've taken the plunge. I've agreed to buy this turntable, and a new, slightly too long anti-skate belt is on its way (anyone suggest I rewire the arm while it's dismantled?). Fixing the bias adjustment is priority #1, followed closely by reducing the wow and flutter. To that end, I've tried cleaning the subplatter, which definitely has some surface irregularities, but I can't tell if it's stubborn gunk or the plastic itself that is a little rough in patches. It seems that upgrading the subplatter almost always results in happier owners, either because of better speed stability or other sonic improvements. I'll probably end up ordering this:

http://www.tangospinner.com/products-detail.php?id_pro=14&producto=PUGLIESE Upgrade Kit

I did some very minor tests with the motor position / belt tension, but the only tangible result was a change in average speed. Slightly more tension / far motor position would give speed estimates of about 33.6 rpm, and lower tension / closer motor could give 33.0. At least I was able to set the speed fairly well by the time I was done. The wow and flutter measurements throughout these minor changes were basically unchanged, so I suspect that while the belt may be ready for replacement, there is a bigger culprit affecting speed stability. I find it a bit "crude yet effective" that the motor isolation design is simply the motor connected to a plate (and therefore the plinth) via a rubber band. I assume a rock solid and very circular subplatter would smooth out most of the wobble that this hanging motor arrangement might produce.

 

[Wray & Ting]

I just took apart the bearing well for the first time. There definitely was some dark oil down there, but I was surprised how little oilthere was. I retrieved the ball bearing and cleaned it with soapy water and there is definitely a surface defect. I wouldn't call it a flat spot per se, but my fingernail can feel it. Definitely has to go! Has anyone replaced their bearing well with an aftermarket one made from Delrin or other material?

 

[Wray & Ting]

I've pretty much figured out the source of my wow woes. I tried to use a stouter elastic band on the motor isolation band, and this had a small but measurable effect. More often than not before that change I would get wow estimates > 0.3%, and after it was usually < 0.3%. Far from concrete, and still not very good, but it is something. Decoupling the motor from the plinth helps to reduce motor noise in the system, but the way they did that in early Regas like mine seems to allow the motor to wobble. So it's a trade off between SNR and speed stability I guess.

Anyway, the smoking gun came when I tried to measure how round the subplatter is by putting my dial indicator on the rim as it spun. This was far from a perfect experiment as I couldn't get the dial indicator planar (haha) and radially aligned with the subplatter (so it had to contact obliquely), and I had to spin it at 45 pm so the indicator could touch the subplatter where the belt sits for 33 RPM, but the results were conclusive. The subplatter is out-of-round by roughly 4 thou, and it definitely has an egg shape that would give the nice sinusoidal variation in pitch and speed I hear and measure. If the dial indicator was just barely touching the subplatter rim, it would touch through half the rotation, and then not touch for the second half. Yikes. I'm happy though - the last thing I wanted was to order a new subplatter from Tangospinner and then hear no tangible improvement in speed stability. Now the only decisions to make are whether to get the 33/33 or 33/45 pulley, and whether to order the VHL bearing well. I don't have any plans to listen to 45s any time soon, so I'm leaning toward the double belt 33/33.

Thanks for all the replies. You've all been enormously helpful to this vinyl newbie.

 

[daman61]

I like the R200 arm on my Planar 3 - it looks and feels lovely, has an SME-type detachable headshell and it has given me great performances with a range of cartridges (some high-compliance). The anti-skating is the real pain and mine is now frozen at around 1.5, so I only use cartridges on it with VTFs around this value.

I find that the belt of the Planar 3 needs replacing every few years. Recently, my 1982 model had serious speed issues and I had the motor replaced - the speed is OK now but I can hear some motor noise between tracks.

In comparing the Luxman and Rega, don't forget that that the fitted cartridges will make heck of a difference. For a fair comparison between the decks, they'd have to be fitted with the same cartridge (and one that is suitable for both arms).

I used the Rega Planar 3 and R200 combo for my current phono cartridge set-up, i.e., Denon DL-103. I also have the newer Rega Planar 3/RB300 combo and never seemed to enjoy it and sole it eventually.

 

[doctor fuse]

My Planar 3 with RB300 arm had speed issues when I got it, that were not solved by a new belt.

What did solve it, and what turned it into a very enjoyable music maker, was first, oiling the motor effectively (got wow and flutter down below 0.19%), and removing the motor and attaching it with rubber bands and a DIY metal bracket (in keeping with the Rega ethos, albeit inverted) to a wooden isolation board on racquetball halves as feet (this allowed me to adjust the turntable plinth on the isolation board/motor mount until 33.33 rpm was achieved, and then affixed.

Those old Rega tables can be frustrating, but when they play correctly, they make nice music.

 

[Wray & Ting]

I used the Rega Planar 3 and R200 combo for my current phono cartridge set-up, i.e., Denon DL-103. I also have the newer Rega Planar 3/RB300 combo and never seemed to enjoy it and sole it eventually.

By the time I got to the cartridge ordering stage, my budget couldn't afford to even consider an MC cart, but in doing research I encountered many posts suggesting that particular Denon cartridge is a good match for the R200.

My Planar 3 with RB300 arm had speed issues when I got it, that were not solved by a new belt.

What did solve it, and what turned it into a very enjoyable music maker, was first, oiling the motor effectively (got wow and flutter down below 0.19%), and removing the motor and attaching it with rubber bands and a DIY metal bracket (in keeping with the Rega ethos, albeit inverted) to a wooden isolation board on racquetball halves as feet (this allowed me to adjust the turntable plinth on the isolation board/motor mount until 33.33 rpm was achieved, and then affixed.

Those old Rega tables can be frustrating, but when they play correctly, they make nice music.

I agree, mine is also making nice music these days! I have been on a bit of an odyssey with troubleshooting and upgrading, but more than anything, learning. I have been meaning to return to this thread to mark my progress and share with the community what I've found, but I've been storing it up and waiting until I have more conclusive results. In the short months I've owned this TT I've mucked around with the anti-skate belt, tonearm rewiring, subplatter swap, new bearing, bearing oil(s), belt(s), upgraded motor pulley, motor lubrication, motor isolation, replacement plinth, wall mount, new mat and new cartridge. Not to be intentionally vague, but some of these avenues have been ordeals filled with drama, and the results are not particularly straightforward, and often not what I expected after doing a lot of reading and learning about these areas. Suffice it to say that my confidence in my previous post about the "smoking gun" behind my wow problems was premature. The most important thing is that the TT is running and sounding better than when I bought it, and I have now realized darn good wow numbers for a belt-driven turntable, but that particular detail is still in progress, as are others. If I can pull my quarantine-addled thoughts together I'll try to pass on the pertinent info in a series of posts that people might find useful.

 

[stratokaster]

I had one funky old Rega 200 arm, and two new 300's, one with pure silver VDH wire.

The 200 smoked them both. So don't dismiss it: Acos made it.

I have never heard the Rega R200, but I have it's better cousin (Lustre GST-1) and it's one formidable tonearm. Massively underrated, you can still buy them for about 200€ or so. Clearly designed to compete with SME 3009 and better in every respect. They were universally disliked in the 70s because of their high-ish effective mass (about 15g) but today there's no reason to avoid them because ultra high compliance cartridges have been extinct for a long time...

 

[Wray & Ting]

I have never heard the Rega R200, but I have it's better cousin (Lustre GST-1) and it's one formidable tonearm. Massively underrated, you can still buy them for about 200€ or so. Clearly designed to compete with SME 3009 and better in every respect. They were universally disliked in the 70s because of their high-ish effective mass (about 15g) but today there's no reason to avoid them because ultra high compliance cartridges have been extinct for a long time...

If I ever get into swapping tonearms, I would definitely consider a higher-end model from the same company that produced the R200. I have no real experience with other tonearms (my previous TT was a linear tracker) but I've really been enjoying listening to / making needle drops with this one.

 

[Wray & Ting]

I have run enough tests and sufficiently ordered my thoughts that I can post about my experiences with this TT over the last few months. To summarize where I was at when this thread started: I bought a used original Planar 3 with R200 tonearm and older Grado ZT+ cartridge and set out to do two main things: 1) improve the table's poor wow & flutter (speed stability) performance; 2) restore the tonearm's anti-skate functionality. I'll start with point 1). Bear in mind that some of my results may be specific to my setup and individual parts, and so we may arrive at different conclusions, but I have tried to be as careful and methodical as possible when testing the many variables for speed stability.

Three Clear Improvements to Speed Stability (W&F)

Of all the changes I have attempted via different setup conditions or replacement parts, only three things have definitively improved the audible (and cell phone app measured) wow & flutter of this table: The first, and most obvious thing I should have tried before anything else: change the belt. Mea culpa. When I was given this table to demo, it had a Rega black belt that I didn't know was worn out. When I finally completed the transaction with the owner, he threw in another Rega black belt that had been used previously on one of his other TTs, as I had mentioned to him the speed stability issues I was experiencing. The impact was significant. While there was no apparent difference between the two used belts, but this second one still had some life left in it, and is the belt I am currently using, as it is the only belt I have that gives satisfactory speed stability (including two new opal belts from Tangospinner, either used solo or in tandem).

The second thing that led to a further concrete improvement in speed stability was isolating the motor from the plinth. There are superior looking aftermarket upgrades to this end, but since I had blown my budget on other components, and being naturally inclined to DIY, I whipped up something quick and dirty in my shop. I refined that first design into what I'm using now: a ~ 6" x 9" x 5/8" birch board with three very grippy rubber feet, with a 2-1/2" x 2-1/2" x 3/4" birch motor mount screwed to it. This motor mount has a 2" round recess to support the motor, drilled with a Forstner bit, and the motor i held in place by friction. It would be better if this motor base was made of denser material, but the grippy feet provide plenty of traction to keep the motor immobilized from belt tension while running. When first installing this motor base, or anytime the TT is moved, it is necessary to fine-tune the motor's position relative to the subplatter, as there can be some small variation in both speed stability and speed accuracy (closeness to 33.33 rpm).

The third way I improved speed stability was only an improvement for me because I started out doing it wrong: use the recommended lubricant for the platter bearing. Out of ignorance, I grabbed the first thing I found in my shop, which was 3-in-1 oil, a very light oil that is quite different from what is recommended by Rega. In general, using a heavier lubricant gave me improved speed stability across the board. I'm currently using Nautilus SAE 90 marine gear oil, because I happened to have a quart tucked away in my shop.

With these three principal changes, I generally measure W&F 2sigma errors of between 0.10% and 0.08% at a speed of about 33.40 rpm. This is night and day from my initial experience where the TT averaged about 0.33% error, which was distracting on most LPs, not just those typically prone, such as featuring sustained piano notes. At current W&F levels, I don't notice any speed stability issues during general listening, and it is difficult to impossible for me to discern any wow (depending on music) when doing critical listening or cleaning up needle drops. I have a couple records that are clearly pressed off-centre (the stylus sweeps left and right during play) or are slightly warped, that still exhibit noticeable wow. Without getting into gory specifics in this post, I have made other tests to setup and parts that have not seemed to affect speed stability, have had marginal positive impact, or have made it worse: different motor suspension belt, altering motor position while suspended, different subplatter, different bearing, different motor pulley, different belt / combination of belts, different bearing lubricants, lubricating the motor.

More to come.

 

[Wray & Ting]

I successfully changed my anti-skate belt, but it wasn't without some pitfalls. There are numerous threads in various online forums dedicated to this subject, and I read and consulted as many as I could prior to starting mine. There is no need for me to reproduce the methods for this repair here, but I will emphasize the couple of aspects to which I didn't give enough weight

Anti-skate Belt Replacement

Changing the anti-skate belt is non-trivial, but it isn’t too daunting a job if you have a good track record for completing fine repair jobs. The belts you can typically find online are longer than the original, so they require some form of spacer to take up the slack. The tonearm must be removed, plug desoldered, and lower bearing disassembled. The original belt in mine was in many pieces. Once all evidence of the old belt was cleaned and removed, I test-fitted the new belt (procured from an eBay seller) and created a ~3/16" thick round spacer out of a slice of pen cap and glued it in place. Once the spacer is secured, it’s important to make sure the anti-skate dial is set to zero and the magnets are at their furthest distance from each other. With the new belt installed, the reassembly procedure is simply the reverse of the disassembly, with a few caveats:

• Make sure the bearing is not overtightened. I didn’t give this enough concern when reassembling, and even though i only secured the bearing keeper to “gentle firm” tightness, the tonearm was not as free as it needs to be, and would hop outward out of the groove, resulting in repeating skips. It's not so easy to tell if the tonearm bearing are frictionless enough with the tonearm in hand, so in hindsight I'd recommend mounting it in the plinth again before resoldering the plug to ensure the tonearm can move as freely as it is supposed to (by blowing on the side of the headshell with the counterweight zeroed, or similar method). I had to open up the tonearm again to reset the bearing keeper, and by the time I was done I had shortened the leads enough through repeated soldering/desoldering that I needed to replace them.
• Ensure that you have adequate soldering skills and equipment / setup. When I started this I tried doing it from my coffee table, naively assuming it would be a quick job. I overestimated my rusty soldering skill, had insufficient light, could not easily hold wire / plug / iron / solder at the same time, and my iron tip was in poor shape from years of neglect. I moved to the kitchen island, got out my goose-neck magnifying lamp, “helping hands” for holding the leads / plug, and reground my soldering iron tip (in general, don’t grind your soldering tip - it got my iron working much better than when it was crudded up with burnt residue, but the tip now needs replacing as it’s down to the copper core).

Since I messed up the bearing tightness and soldering, I had to rewire the tonearm. I tried in vain to repurpose wire pulled from USB/ethernet cabling - this really didn’t work. In theory it could have, but the stuff I had around was PVC clad and a little too heavy in gauge, which meant that when I had rewired the tonearm and reassembled everything, the tonearm’s movement was restricted worse than when the bearing keeper was slightly too tight. I ordered five 12" Cardas 33 gauge tonearm wires, and that did the trick. I fed the wires through the tonearm using the high-E guitar string method I found online, which worked well.
Once the belt was replaced and the tonearm rewired with proper wire, everything worked and sounded great! Also, the anti-skate worked, which was the whole point in the first place (the saga went on so long I almost forgot this halfway through). I'm currently running with the anti-skate set to about 2, and the counterweight set to about 2.25.