Did some interesting cart comparisons last night

[DaveyW]

Count me in
I'll be burning 'em all to an audio cd and playing through the full rig
Am happy to pop on my Skydrive account if you're struggling BC
Good stuff :thmbsp:
Dave

 

[jdwk]

Can't wait! thanks!

 

[dewdude]

Server space is set up. Server is musichack.org - login and password is audiokarma. Upload files in the ak folder, they in turn will appear at http://musichack.org/ak - play nicely with it.

As far as syncing up files....unless you're using a very stable clock source...they will never completely line up. This also won't gain you much from a comparison point. Anyone using multitrack should be able to do this on their own...if they so desire.

Sent from my SPH-M910 using Tapatalk

 

[illinoisteve]

What tracking weight allowance are you using for M97xE with the stabilizer brush? Do I remember correctly that 0.5 gram is the recommendation? Have you experimented with varying that slightly?

I have similar questions about the "Stanton 681EEE-S with LP Gear ViVid Line" if that model includes a brush. On Stanton/Pickerings the allowance is 1 gram I am pretty sure.

In any case, how the brushes are accommodated seems to me a critical issue in a comparison with cartridges without brushes.

ALSO, I can't stream audio with my connection. I hope the commentaries in this thread will be descriptive enough to benefit someone who can't listen to the samples. Also, for those who can stream, how will listening to the samples on computer affect how precisely they can be appreciated?

I wanted to closely compare the carts in my collection, so I digitally captured samples of the following:

Grado Gold1
Grado ZC+ (= Green) with Gold1 stylus
Shure M97xE with brush
Shure M97xE without brush
Shure M91ED with JICO SAS
Shure M91ED with USA-made Hi-Track
Shure M91ED with AVG generic
Stanton 681EEE-S with LP Gear ViVid Line
Denon DL-160

These were all captured using a thedelihaus-modded SL-1200MK2 with upgraded wiring, etc. and a Rega Fono Mini preamp (47k ohm only). The test record is a 1969 "360 Sound" pressing of Blood Sweat & Tears playing a section of "Spinning Wheel" (STILL one of the best sounding records ever).

I'd like to share these samples with you all, but I'm not quite sure what the best to do it is. I could use YouSendIt, but the files will expire after either 100 downloads or 7 days. Would anyone be willing/able to host the files for me? I think you will find them interesting.

 

[beatcomber]

OK, the files have been posted! Beware, the zipped file is 104MB.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39332736/cartridges.zip
To make this more fun, the individual files have not been labeled. I will reveal them later.

Being interested in this myself....I would like to offer you guys some server space so you don't have to use rapidshare or other ad-riddled crappy free hosting. If FTP upload is ok...ill jump on ssh and set something up for you guys. It'll be direct linking beauty.

Am happy to pop on my Skydrive account if you're struggling BC

Thank you for offering this... But I already got Dropbox all set up. I do appreciate the assistance though.

Incidentally, Dave, it was your excellent site that inspired me to do this. Ta!

I'm mostly interested because I'm looking at upgrading my Grado Green with another stylus (which I didn't know was possible till this thread) or a new cartridge.

I'll hold back my comments on this until you guys give a listen...

Normalising them to the same average (RMS) level is critical

The files have all been normalized and saved as WAVs (for you PC folks).

Some notes on tracking force used:

Grado Gold1: 1.65
Grado ZC+ (= Green) with Gold1 stylus: 1.65
Shure M97xE with brush: 1.75
Shure M97xE without brush: 1.25
Shure M91ED with JICO SAS: 1.25
Shure M91ED with USA-made Hi-Track: 1.25
Shure M91ED with AVG generic: 1.25
Stanton 681EEE-S with LP Gear ViVid Line (no brush)*: 1.25
Denon DL-160: 1.6
*I have a genuine NY Stanton longhair brush, but elected not to include it in the test for two reasons: 1.) I can easily hear that it degrades the ViVid Line stylus' performance; 2.) I used to use it with a JICO Shibata at 2.25 grams and within a year the cantilever collapsed.

As previously stated, the tests were carried out using a Cardas rewired SL-1200MK2 with damped tonearm and upgraded SL-1200MG5 interconnects, through a Rega Fono Mini 47k ohm preamp.

It will be interesting to see which ones you guys like the best and least! Let the fun begin!

 

[steely]

OK, the files have been posted! Beware, the zipped file is 104MB.

Got it, thanks!

 

[beatcomber]

Got it, thanks!

Let the fun begin!

 

[guiller]

Let the fun begin!

Many thanks! I'm downloading the file now. The pity is that the Rega Fono Mini preamp did not allow for adjustable loading, which for some of the carts considered might be important, as it has been stressed here by Felix (Catman) and other friends. Anyway, I'm pretty sure this is a great share and would like to thank you for the time and effort involved in this project, and for the sharing.

 

[rito25]

Gonna try this. Gonna also be a nice way to see how revealing my system(s) is/(are).

 

[Frank Sol]

Got them... Took <3mins to DL

I will report back later

 

[rito25]

Hmm, 4 sounds really nice to me. Nice low end and nice high end. However 2 sounds the most balanced to my ear and handled the bass the best imho, I want to say it's the Denon?

 

[steely]

So far I've only listened on my somewhat rinky-dink Altec Lansing desktop PC system but right off the bat I disliked #1. #'s 2, 4 and 8 are my early favorites. I kind of like #9 a lot, too.

It's such a well-recorded LP that it's hard for any cartridge to make it sound bad!

EDIT: After #1, I think #5 is my next least favorite followed by #7. None of those three sound quite "right" to me, especially #1. The mids are a little hollow and scooped out. #6 isn't bad but it's not the best. If I have time tonight I'll play these through my real system downstairs. Then I'll really be able to evaluate what's going on.

 

[markshan]

Well, the first thing that jumps out is how similar the tracks sound. This once again proves what I have always said about a great drop being the result of a great piece of vinyl. Any of these clips are more than satisfactory, so take my comments as the comparisons you asked for, not as slagging any particular clip.

Next, let me say that (as a dropper) I actually favor styli that let you hear the clicks more. Some folks will prefer the ones that "reduce surface noise", but I always figure that if you are reducing clicks, you are also reducing other transients. To me it is all about accuracy.

It is hard to judge so many clips all at once because how they compare to each other comes into play. Put them in a different order and you may get different results.

1 - very articulate, just a shade bright
2 - more neutral, less defined
3 - too much upper mid
4 - nice lower mid "growl" on the bass
5 - same as 4 to my ears
6 - same as 3
7 - impressive reverb trails, great detail on the hi-hat
8 - same as 3
9 - the most air of any sample

Order of preference (again, the differences were subtle)...

7, 9
1, 4, 5
3, 6, 8
2

Listened with EMu 1212 card into Marantz 2230 into Grado SR-60

 

[gusten]

I think the clips are surprisingly similar, they will sound even more similar when each cart is optimum loaded.

Still my favourite is #9 which I believe is the Denon. Crisp and clear with little distortion.
#7 would be the 97Xe, lacks a bit in transients but with the brush down rather OK, but too much bass.
gusten

 

[markshan]

After this goes for a couple days, I am looking forward to finding out which cart is which.

 

[Frank Sol]

Played all 9 through my Squeezebox Touch & Rega DAC into main system

I didnt spend too much time on this not because the process isnt worthy it is just that I get more confused the longer I do something like this...

2, 7 & 9 were my 1st step favs

Then 7 & 9 <--- Either would be fine with me but if I had to pick just one it would be #9

Thanks for the time & effort BC

 

[sxty8goats]

Played all 9 through my Squeezebox Touch & Rega DAC into main system

I didnt spend too much time on this not because the process isnt worthy it is just that I get more confused the longer I do something like this...

2, 7 & 9 were my 1st step favs

Then 7 & 9 <--- Either would be fine with me but if I had to pick just one it would be #9

Thanks for the time & effort BC

Frank have you run the SB Touch solo with a USB hard drive attached? I'm looking for a better office solution. Upgrading my sound card on the computer is not an option as I don't own it. I will not likely be about to attach the SB Touch to a network so it would have to run solo. I've read a couple good and a couple bad reviews about the USB playback. My current collection is 99% MP3 but I'm starting to rip LP's to FLAC rather than bring a TT into work.

Trying to find a format that I can run here at work. Seems my sansa MP3 player doesn't do wav. I'll get there soon enough..

♦

 

[Frank Sol]

Frank have you run the SB Touch solo with a USB hard drive attached?

At the risk of derailing this thread... I've never used a usb thumb drive but have used a 1.5 TB external HDD. The ext hdd worked well, the SBT will have to run its server on the hdd (I believe)

 

[beatcomber]

Many thanks! I'm downloading the file now. The pity is that the Rega Fono Mini preamp did not allow for adjustable loading, which for some of the carts considered might be important, as it has been stressed here by Felix (Catman) and other friends. Anyway, I'm pretty sure this is a great share and would like to thank you for the time and effort involved in this project, and for the sharing.

I suggest checking out DaveyW's excellent site for samples of popular carts with different loading.

Gonna try this. Gonna also be a nice way to see how revealing my system(s) is/(are).

Indeed. On my 'good' system, the different examples were quite different-sounding, but on my so-so car stereo, they all sounded pretty much the same.

After this goes for a couple days, I am looking forward to finding out which cart is which.

Based on some of the comments so far, some of you will be very surprised! I'm going to put together a tally sheet which I will share in a few days.

 

[rito25]

Gonna do some more comprehensions on with audacity. They sound pretty close to each other right now. Funny guess that's my sound card, since klipsch Hersey's are supposed to be revealing.