guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
I am ASTOUNDED that any CD player from 1986 is still functional!
I´m the happy owner of yet another Denon DCD-1500 (unmodified and unserviced as of today). It still yields the best CD sound at home.
Differences Between CD Players?
- Thread starter operaman
- Start date
I´m the happy owner of yet another Denon DCD-1500 (unmodified and unserviced as of today). It still yields the best CD sound at home.
Tinman
Super Member
Having some time on my hands, I have indeed managed to replace the laser DIODE in a player or two. NOT for the impatient, but possible if you really want to keep that favorite deck. ( A tech bench IS required ) With that note, My CD-100 development SAMPLE still runs fine, as does my CD-101 and CDP-101 from sony. My favorite tank is my Studer A727. Runs like a champ. Most of these needed only cleaning and maybe a touch-up of the tracking and focus pots. THe old stuff was pretty hardy.
markc2
Super Member
THANK YOU ALL for your nice responses about CD Player sound. My conclusions:
I believe you when some of you say that there are differences between players. I'm sure if I ever do a side-by-side comparison I will hear the difference. I respond that, like our comrade whose cri de coeur "I Am Not An Audiophile" inspired so much discussion here, I would have to also claim not to be one - I'm a musician, though, and have sat in the middle of an orchestra, and have heard orchestras close-up in some of the world's greatest concert halls, so I know a thing or two about Golden Sound, and I'm pretty sure you could be happy with a $200 CD player! So I'm grateful for your opinions but still pretty skeptical about all this talk from those who seem to think that their "golden ears" can tolerate nothing less than a $1,000 deck. You've been listening to too much equipment and not enough music
Pardon my getting snarky here for a moment!
I think that's why some people won't have anything less than a 1000.00 CD player, or a really good one to their ears. You go to the concert go home and want to get as close as you can to that performance. For some audiophile means just that.
Though I gave up on CD players for a while, I got tired of reviews of CD players ALWAYS being compared to records. So I bought one. So now it will be a while before I get a CD player.:yes:
terra1
Addicted Member
*sees the sign No Snark Zone and checks ego at the door.*
When you audition any equipment you take along a CD or CDs you are familiar with. I listen for how well it handles certain vocals, percussions, cymbals, background instruments, sound stage.
If you can't tell the difference, then you can save money.
If you can tell the difference, then like any other system tweak you want to look for the best for your budget and availability.
Simple as that.
Some older CD players I have had to balance with a bubble level to avoid skipping or recognize some CD-Rs. The floor on one side of the basement is about a 1/4-1/2" off center.
Sony CDP-79ES: The surround modes just added distortion. As it aged, it lost its crispness. Plays all CD-Rs.
Kenwood DP-700: highs and mids are sharp and detailed. Does not play some CD-Rs.
Sony CA70ES: Nice detail highs and mids. Fuller sounding than the Kenwood. Plays all CD-Rs.
Onkyo DX-706. Warmer sound on vocals. But does not have the sharpness of the Sonys on cymbals, drums, or whips. Needs to be well-balanced to play all CD-Rs.
When you audition any equipment you take along a CD or CDs you are familiar with. I listen for how well it handles certain vocals, percussions, cymbals, background instruments, sound stage.
If you can't tell the difference, then you can save money.
If you can tell the difference, then like any other system tweak you want to look for the best for your budget and availability.
Simple as that.
Some older CD players I have had to balance with a bubble level to avoid skipping or recognize some CD-Rs. The floor on one side of the basement is about a 1/4-1/2" off center.
Sony CDP-79ES: The surround modes just added distortion. As it aged, it lost its crispness. Plays all CD-Rs.
Kenwood DP-700: highs and mids are sharp and detailed. Does not play some CD-Rs.
Sony CA70ES: Nice detail highs and mids. Fuller sounding than the Kenwood. Plays all CD-Rs.
Onkyo DX-706. Warmer sound on vocals. But does not have the sharpness of the Sonys on cymbals, drums, or whips. Needs to be well-balanced to play all CD-Rs.
markc2
Super Member
MaxSeven
Word Skeptic
I'm going to lean to the side of skepticism on this whole topic. I suggest a blind CDP test, and that would reveal all. Say take five different players ranging from $100 to $10,000 and see if anyone blindfolded can tell the difference. I think not.
It's completely psychological.
It's completely psychological.
Captain Reg
Audioanglophile
Recently picked up a NAD M5 SACD/HDCD Player after using a Denon DVD 1930 player and DCM 370/380 for years. The difference was dare I say...night and day.
operaman
Super Member
awesome. as the somewhat biased author of this thread, I thank you for that.
cheers, mate
Interesting comment.
So, running with your theory the same could be said for those that can't hear a difference, eh!?!
gusten
Addicted Member
I think it´s very safe to say that every CDP are in some way colouring the sound. There are quite a few parts in the CDP that in some way will add distortion. But that is not to say that every CDP will be distinguished from another CDP in a listening test; the colouring could be very close.
How to know which CDP are closest to the "true" sound is very difficult, if not impossible, most people will choose a CDP that have a sound they like, or they will choose a known brand that stands for something they like. How many people are really doing listening tests in their home, with different CDPs, at the same time, before buying?
/gusten
How to know which CDP are closest to the "true" sound is very difficult, if not impossible, most people will choose a CDP that have a sound they like, or they will choose a known brand that stands for something they like. How many people are really doing listening tests in their home, with different CDPs, at the same time, before buying?
/gusten
gusten
Addicted Member
I´m quite sure if you would randomly pick five different players as you suggest, some of these would be significantly picked as sounding different than others. I do not mean that the the more expensive ones will be picked as sounding better. I only mean that these five will not sound so alike that trained people will not hear a difference.
/gusten
woodlander
Vintage listener
While I applaud skepticism generally, you probably wouldn't want to wager much money on this. With that large a spread in price, it is possible to pick units that sound significantly different. I recently got a new unit that sounds so different that several people have asked if I got a new amplifier or something after hearing it.
Go out and listen to something like a McIntosh MDA1000. Your ears will tell the story.
MaxSeven
Word Skeptic
That is true!
MaxSeven
Word Skeptic
I have to insist that it is an illusional situation. If you took one trained listener and had them listen to the five different CDP's blindfolded, and had them describe the sound of each CDP in the test group (subject A, B, C...), then you mixed them up, and had them try to match their original descriptions to the prior test, you would get completely different matches.
eljr
Koyaanisqatsi
You see? You got all the opinions you need without any fighting here. Try this on other sites! :bash: :twak:istols:
Very very true. :thmbsp:
eljr
Koyaanisqatsi
I am convinced to my own satisfaction that CD players and DACs differ significantly enough in sound that I am willing to spend significant amounts of money on those I consider better. As for the blind test, that's an empirical question, and I have yet to see one with enough statistical power to give confidence in a null ("no difference") result. It would be interesting, but difficult and exhausting, to arrange a good one.
dnewma04
The Healer
I'd not wager on any money on any test without seeing the testing conditions. In very controlled conditions where output levels are matched as perfectly as measurement equipment allows, where it's a true double blind test, neither the switcher or listener knows which is being played, where repeatable data to a statistically significant degree is a must, I'd lay a significant portion of money down. If it's a haphazard home test dubbed a double blind test that meets few or no conditions of a true double blind test, i'd not bet any money on it or I'd be parted with it, quickly.
None of the tests I've heard, seen, or read about have ever proven that all amps, wires, CDPs sound the same. They all set out to disprove that there are very audible/identifiable differences, to a statistically significant degree, within similar conditions. Is there a readily identifiable difference between an amp with flat freq response and one with something other than flat? absofuckinglutely. Is there a readily identifiable and repeatable difference between two CDPs with the same output levels, same output impedance, similar DAC architecture, perfectly conforming frequency response graphs, etc? Hard to say, but even if I thought i heard a difference, i'd be hesistant to say it was real.
IMHO, a healthy dose of skepticism is an important part of learning, but it's an early step and if not used constructively, can actually impede the process of understanding. If skepticism leads to research, it's constructive. If skepticism leads to closed minded generalizations, than certain not to help anyone.
I must amend that slightly. Being closed minded about certain things does tend to help keep the bank account in the black more consistently, which can potentially help relationships.
All that said, there are certain things I am quite closed minded about. I do not believe that hanging special rocks off of an interconnect will do anything to the sound. More specifically, I don't believe that if it does help, that the rocks have to be specially designed/sorted/polished rocks. I don't believe that having a portable alarm clock in the house with a round sticker over the display is going to improve color saturation of my bedroom TV if in the trunk of my car, or in the house, but not on the porch. I am skeptical and closed minded about companies that profit off of mocking their customers. I think my disdain for these type of companies is purely from jealousy that they found a way to profit off one of my favorite past times, mocking others.
gusten
Addicted Member
I'd not wager on any money on any test without seeing the testing conditions. In very controlled conditions where output levels are matched as perfectly as measurement equipment allows, where it's a true double blind test, neither the switcher or listener knows which is being played, where repeatable data to a statistically significant degree is a must, I'd lay a significant portion of money down. If it's a haphazard home test dubbed a double blind test that meets few or no conditions of a true double blind test, i'd not bet any money on it or I'd be parted with it, quickly.
None of the tests I've heard, seen, or read about have ever proven that all amps, wires, CDPs sound the same. They all set out to disprove that there are very audible/identifiable differences, to a statistically significant degree, within similar conditions. Is there a readily identifiable difference between an amp with flat freq response and one with something other than flat? absofuckinglutely. Is there a readily identifiable and repeatable difference between two CDPs with the same output levels, same output impedance, similar DAC architecture, perfectly conforming frequency response graphs, etc? Hard to say, but even if I thought i heard a difference, i'd be hesistant to say it was real.
IMHO, a healthy dose of skepticism is an important part of learning, but it's an early step and if not used constructively, can actually impede the process of understanding. If skepticism leads to research, it's constructive. If skepticism leads to closed minded generalizations, than certain not to help anyone.
I must amend that slightly. Being closed minded about certain things does tend to help keep the bank account in the black more consistently, which can potentially help relationships.
All that said, there are certain things I am quite closed minded about. I do not believe that hanging special rocks off of an interconnect will do anything to the sound. More specifically, I don't believe that if it does help, that the rocks have to be specially designed/sorted/polished rocks. I don't believe that having a portable alarm clock in the house with a round sticker over the display is going to improve color saturation of my bedroom TV if in the trunk of my car, or in the house, but not on the porch. I am skeptical and closed minded about companies that profit off of mocking their customers. I think my disdain for these type of companies is purely from jealousy that they found a way to profit off one of my favorite past times, mocking others.
Well written.
I have two minor comments: I don´t think it´s possible to prove that different CDPs sound the same. What one can prove is a/ There is a difference or b/ There is not a detectible difference.
Regarding scepticism: I tend to think that closed minded generalizations are more present in a climate not tolerating skepticism or allowing adequate questioning.
/gusten