• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Do all amplifiers sound identical?

Different circuit designs... different sounds. It only makes sense.

It's called flavor and/or flat. Brand sound or the sound the company engineers are seeking. Different model series' of amps even from the same company sound different.

Even...
the same basic amplifier design, with higher quality components installed by the factory, sound different, or better.

What about MOS?


---

I've read tons of stuff from Alan Shaw of Harbeth Loudspeakers and he has taught me A LOT!! :yes:

With that said... he is selling speakers (and really pushes digital hard.)

But I've learned a TON from his site! Wish I had a pair of Harbeths.
 
Last edited:
Does anybody remember the Carver Challenge? Bob Carver had said that he could voice his amps to sound just like anybody's amp. He was taken up on this and at some big audio show the editors of a very prestigious magazine gave him a Conrad Johnson tube amp to voice to. He measured the transfer function and modded one of his SS amps to have the same transfer function. When tested by a panel of "Golden Ears" in a blind test, they couldn't tell the difference. The test was actually published much to the dismay of Conrad Johnson.
Right now I'm listening to a Carver TFM-42 amp into a set of Carver Amazing Plats (ribbon speakers) and it sounds amazing. The TFM-42 was voiced after Bob Carver's very own Silver Seven tube amps, huge high powered mono blocks, they cost over 30 grand, they would cost a fortune just to re-tube. I get the same nice sound out of this SS amp.

BillWojo
 
I remember it, it comes up often here. One can only conclude from his process that amps can and often do sound different. Ideally, an amp should have no identifiable sound of itself in a typical system, a "straight wire with gain".

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
If I remember correctly, Steve Hoffman said if you really had a truly 'flat' amp... you wouldn't like it.

Something like that, you get the idea anyway.

Flavor & voicing. :music:


Anyway... I can 'easily hear' the difference between different amps. And I'm no professional. Just heard 'a lot' of amps.

You 'FEEL' it.
 
Last edited:
Find yourself an old skool genuine HiFi dealer with a comparator and hear it for yourself.

Unless you can switch instantly from one amp to another, you cannot hear the subtle differences that exist between identically level matched amplifiers.

I can hear and demonstrate that not all amps sound the same. Many do, but a large number of well regarded amplifiers clearly have a character that can be easily heard.

I use this:

but it is no fun to wire up...

attachment.php


attachment.php


attachment.php


attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0300.jpg
    IMG_0300.jpg
    33.5 KB · Views: 211
  • IMG_0299.jpg
    IMG_0299.jpg
    39.7 KB · Views: 204
  • IMG_0301.jpg
    IMG_0301.jpg
    61.5 KB · Views: 193
  • IMG_0302.jpg
    IMG_0302.jpg
    60.3 KB · Views: 187
Find yourself an old skool genuine HiFi dealer with a comparator and hear it for yourself.

Unless you can switch instantly from one amp to another, you cannot hear the subtle differences that exist between identically level matched amplifiers.

I can hear and demonstrate that not all amps sound the same. Many do, but a large number of well regarded amplifiers clearly have a character that can be easily heard.

I use this:

but it is no fun to wire up...

Right, we are all on our way to your place.....:thmbsp:
 
From the measurement side, distortion spectrum and distortion component over power graphs would rather hint to all amps sounding at least a little bit different...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Does anybody remember the Carver Challenge? Bob Carver had said that he could voice his amps to sound just like anybody's amp. He was taken up on this and at some big audio show the editors of a very prestigious magazine gave him a Conrad Johnson tube amp to voice to. He measured the transfer function and modded one of his SS amps to have the same transfer function. When tested by a panel of "Golden Ears" in a blind test, they couldn't tell the difference. The test was actually published much to the dismay of Conrad Johnson.
Right now I'm listening to a Carver TFM-42 amp into a set of Carver Amazing Plats (ribbon speakers) and it sounds amazing. The TFM-42 was voiced after Bob Carver's very own Silver Seven tube amps, huge high powered mono blocks, they cost over 30 grand, they would cost a fortune just to re-tube. I get the same nice sound out of this SS amp.

BillWojo

I recall all that hype over 'transfer-function'. The Base Exchange was full of TFM products that all sounded dull. One could blame the store for badly demonstrating them, or maybe the reason was the wrong speaker wire at the selector switch. Maybe the speakers themselves were placed improperly on the floor, making ANY audition worthless. There could have been many reasons why a bank of carver products all sounded lifeless. At any rate, TFM, as it was advertised in that location, came across as lacking a noticeable sonic advantage.
 
Do all amps sound the same?

When I have rotated my amps, lined up on the floor moving the cables, I can say that each one has it's own personality.

Every amp begins life as a set of design goal specifications with a budget, and through a series of trade offs is born into the world.
 
Bubo: Just on a sidenote, is that Bubo the owl pic in your avatar cover art from an LP or CD? Then I'd be curious from which band - 'cause some vague memory appears to tell me I should know it, but I just don't quite remember, so I might as well just know it from the movie...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Do all amps sound the same?

When I have rotated my amps, lined up on the floor moving the cables, I can say that each one has it's own personality.

Every amp begins life as a set of design goal specifications with a budget, and through a series of trade offs is born into the world.

This brings the question, are there some amps that are designed and built without budget considerations? Of course there are. Those amps are beyond the means of the majority of posters here. That's the way it is. For those who dispute this, take a look at the Blowtorch preamplifier. There are others, both pre and power amplifiers. .
 
Does anybody remember the Carver Challenge? Bob Carver had said that he could voice his amps to sound just like anybody's amp. He was taken up on this and at some big audio show the editors of a very prestigious magazine gave him a Conrad Johnson tube amp to voice to. He measured the transfer function and modded one of his SS amps to have the same transfer function. When tested by a panel of "Golden Ears" in a blind test, they couldn't tell the difference. The test was actually published much to the dismay of Conrad Johnson.

BillWojo

Interesting, but doesn't this lend more support to the "amps sound the same" camp? I don't know the specifics of this test...did he establish that there was an audibly discernible difference before he modified his amp?
 
This brings the question, are there some amps that are designed and built without budget considerations? Of course there are. Those amps are beyond the means of the majority of posters here. That's the way it is. For those who dispute this, take a look at the Blowtorch preamplifier. There are others, both pre and power amplifiers. .

Not quite sure what your point is here.

Are you implying because some amps are considerably more expensive than others the more expensive ones are, by default or inherently, more sonically correct?
 
This brings the question, are there some amps that are designed and built without budget considerations? Of course there are. Those amps are beyond the means of the majority of posters here. That's the way it is. For those who dispute this, take a look at the Blowtorch preamplifier. There are others, both pre and power amplifiers. .

I can tell you from personal experience in the high tech tele-data comm design, engineering, manufacturing and distribution business (companies you know by name) that there were plenty of: no holds barred, no cost too high, never enough engineers or custom ASICs and new from the ground up operating systems projects that were colossal company killing turds.

The turds were typically the children of someone in senior management who was deprived of both a lemon-aid stand and a Radio Shack electronics learning kit as a child, so they possessed neither business acumen nor experience from garage or basement tinkering with electronics.

Once promoted into a position where they had real power, they tinkered without budget or any customers who were remotely interested in their wet dream turd.

The biggest turd that I saw cost more than one Trillion in failed acquisitions and probably another 500 million spent on in house engineering for a product that no one on the planet wanted or could use even if they were given the product free with free installation.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On the flip side, one of the things that is drilled into the heads of engineers in school, and a lot of companies, is to "cost-optimize" the design;... so they spend a lot of time driving pennies out of their final design which is time consuming; and for just a few pennies more you could have used the best components with no material effect on cost. Most companies waste more in engineering time cost then they save by optimizing. Plus the product ends up late to market. There is product cost, then there is total cost. My teams products had by far the lowest total cost in the company.

Since my products had ridiculously good margins, I asked the Engineers not to cost optimize all of the little stuff and stay with the better than spec totl parts they used to prove their designs, and if there was something in the expensive parts, talk to me first before optimizing it. We maintained insane margins, had near zero failures, and had lots of fan-boy customers.

Products that are not built to meet the requirements of customers which includes price, are almost invariably turds.....the trick is to pick the right customers to design and build for.
 
Last edited:
Bubo: Just on a sidenote, is that Bubo the owl pic in your avatar cover art from an LP or CD? Then I'd be curious from which band - 'cause some vague memory appears to tell me I should know it, but I just don't quite remember, so I might as well just know it from the movie...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Things I miss:

  • My nice office near Munich
  • Beer gardens
  • Those nice Bavarian Sausage patties and potato salads at the beer garden
  • Beer at the beer gardens
  • Walking along the lakes to the South, on the way to the local beer garden
  • Driving south into the Alps on the way to Alpine Beer gardens, Garmisch etc.
  • Drinking Wheat Beer indoors, when the beer garden was closed, winter.
  • And all of those business trips to Berlin, which we won't discuss in detail.

As to the Owl......From the Genius and Master of Claymation Ray Harryhsusen, the American offspring of German transplants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzKhqt5IRnM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Harryhausen
 
I can tell you from personal experience in the high tech tele-data comm design, engineering, manufacturing and distribution business (companies you know by name) that there were plenty of: no holds barred, no cost too high, never enough engineers or custom ASICs and new from the ground up operating systems projects that were colossal company killing turds.

The turds were typically the children of someone in senior management who was deprived of both a lemon-aid stand and a Radio Shake electronics learning kit as a child, so they possessed neither business acumen nor experience from garage or basement tinkering with electronics.

Once promoted into a position where they had real power, they tinkered without budget or any customers who were remotely interested in their wet dream turd.

The biggest turd that I saw cost more than one Trillion in failed acquisitions and probably another 500 million spent on in house engineering for a product that no one on the planet wanted or could use even if they were given the product free with free installation.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

FWIW, I really enjoyed reading this post. Fantastic. It really tickled me.:D
 
Back
Top Bottom