Do all amplifiers sound identical?

[chicks]

Not quite sure what your point is here.

Are you implying because some amps are considerably more expensive than others the more expensive ones are, by default or inherently, more sonically correct?

Any knowledgeable consumer who, like me, skips the subjective portion of reviews to head straight to the measurements knows that many "high end" amplifiers are designed by incompetent "engineers", and fail the minimum requirements of high fidelity.

 

[Bubo]

Any knowledgeable consumer who, like me, skips the subjective portion of reviews to head straight to the measurements knows that many "high end" amplifiers are designed by incompetent "engineers", and fail the minimum requirements of high fidelity.

Why did it take me 300 words to say this??:thmbsp:

 

[SuperLead100]

Why did it take me 300 words to say this??:thmbsp:

Entertainment value.

 

[JoeESP9]

Not quite sure what your point is here.

Are you implying because some amps are considerably more expensive than others the more expensive ones are, by default or inherently, more sonically correct?

Not at all. My only point was that not all preamps or amplifiers are designed and built to a budget or specific price point. That's why I specifically mentioned the Blowtorch preamp.

 

[Superampman]

Keep in mind that budgets don't necessarily compromise the outcome. Especially vintage gear when cost was relatively much less of a consideration. Probably why soa gear from 30-40 years ago still sounds soa.

 

[E-Stat]

Keep in mind that budgets don't necessarily compromise the outcome.

To a point perhaps.

With respect to the Blowtorch (exceptionally nice sounding unit indeed), are you familiar with its designer?

 

[Bubo]

Keep in mind that budgets don't necessarily compromise the outcome. Especially vintage gear when cost was relatively much less of a consideration. Probably why soa gear from 30-40 years ago still sounds soa.

My belief is that the late 1970s and early 80s was the peak or plateauing for analog technology and for stereo, which was pushed aside by the TV sound systems. At least two analog engineers agree with me on this.

The late 70s early 80s stereo gear was designed to compete in an ultra competitive market with all of the big electronics companies giving it their best shot to capture market share and profits. Since the big boys were in, their purchasing power, assembly plants, and shared engineering resources helped to keep down the cost of the equipment.

The US dollar at this time was $35 an oz to gold, today it is what $1600 oz, so the US purchasing power was 45x in inflated numbers and compared to the Yen was probably 10x stronger at the time. A lot of the totl Japanese stuff was all hand assembled and hand soldered and designed by a totl audio engineer who was probably earning $20K a year in today money.

In a way, the TOTL audio products of this era, were heavily subsidized by the medium and low end stereo purchasers who paid much of the overhead costs for the manufactures and retailers. The totl were the statement products and the pride and joy of the company and our good luck today.

When the Yen was strong 20 years ago, in addition to buying a lot of over-priced real estate, they sucked probably a couple of hundred million dollars worth of speakers and audio gear off of the US used market and back to Japan.

 

[Superampman]

To a point perhaps.

With respect to the Blowtorch (exceptionally nice sounding unit indeed), are you familiar with its designer?

Don't recall his name but I glossed over some banter about it over at DIY. There's a few well known EEs over there.

 

[bare]

erm J Curl and how a few years back he had to cobble together a final 'blowtorch' from donated /gleaned bits..to pay pad rent/buy food.
Audio seems as rarely a path to riches... or even a passable Dotage.

 

[mhardy6647]

Win Burhoe lives in Weston, MA -- the single most expensive town in the state. There are a few fixer-uppers in Weston, but I'm guessing that the business treated him pretty well.

BTW, it is a very nice little town with good access to Boston. Tad pricey though -- not much, if any thing any more, under seven figures.

EDIT: Of course, Mr. Burhoe didn't tackle amplifiers -- he stuck to speakers. Maybe that's a kinder market

 

[Superampman]

My belief is that the late 1970s and early 80s was the peak or plateauing for analog technology and for stereo, which was pushed aside by the TV sound systems. At least two analog engineers agree with me on this.

The late 70s early 80s stereo gear was designed to compete in an ultra competitive market with all of the big electronics companies giving it their best shot to capture market share and profits. Since the big boys were in, their purchasing power, assembly plants, and shared engineering resources helped to keep down the cost of the equipment.

The US dollar at this time was $35 an oz to gold, today it is what $1600 oz, so the US purchasing power was 45x in inflated numbers and compared to the Yen was probably 10x stronger at the time. A lot of the totl Japanese stuff was all hand assembled and hand soldered and designed by a totl audio engineer who was probably earning $20K a year in today money.

In a way, the TOTL audio products of this era, were heavily subsidized by the medium and low end stereo purchasers who paid much of the overhead costs for the manufactures and retailers. The totl were the statement products and the pride and joy of the company and our good luck today.

When the Yen was strong 20 years ago, in addition to buying a lot of over-priced real estate, they sucked probably a couple of hundred million dollars worth of speakers and audio gear off of the US used market and back to Japan.

I agree with you except about us being lucky. It was simply a matter of course. Technology has always driven the economy. It stands to reason both should come to fruition together.

 

[E-Stat]

Don't recall his name but I glossed over some banter about it over at DIY.

John Curl. The guy on the right also continues to innovate and improve the technology.

I'm going to disagree with the fellow who opined the early 80s were the pinnacle of performance- that's only shortly after some of today's best designers got started!

 

[Superampman]

John Curl. The guy on the right also continues to innovate and improve the technology.

I'm going to disagree with the fellow who opined the early 80s were the pinnacle of performance- that's only shortly after some of today's best designers got started!

I take it that's Mr. Pass himself, smaller than life. Somebody told me a long time ago "You gotta do what you're good at".

I wonder if he took any pointers from Dr. Marshall Leach.

 

[Bubo]

I agree with you except about us being lucky. It was simply a matter of course. Technology has always driven the economy. It stands to reason both should come to fruition together.

R&D goes where the money is, agree.....

Forgot

Special thanks to the members of the US Armed Forces who by the millions shopped at the greatest audio store in history, the PX and brought the gear back home with them. The PX in Naples would take deliveries of 3 tractor trailer loads of totl Dual and Thorens turn tables some months, all sold in a few days.

When the fleet dropped anchor in Naples IT, some of the sailors had 6 months pay in their pocket when they entered the Audio Club on the NATO base, and spent it all. We're talking thousands of sailors making a B-line to the Audio Club. Others bought TOTL Ducatti, MV Augusta, Laverda, Motto Guzzi and Augustini motorcycles which they were allowed to bring back on the ships. I recall someone telling me that an officer on one of the carriers actually purchased a new car that they strapped down on the hanger deck, might have been on the USS America.......Maybe something like this....

A chief Petty Officer could afford one of these in 1974, I worked with the guy, they sell for close to $100K today. This car was way beyond the reach of most Italians at the time. The dollar was strong.

 

[lini]

Bubo: So I take it you're quite a fan of our beergardens over here, aren't you? My favourite one in Munich used to be Menterschwaige, but off the main area and instead at the few extra benches & tables at the Isar Hochufer, because of the wonderful view down the river valley...

Anyway, I guess my question wasn't quite clear: I was already aware that this particular Bubo the owl is from the 1981 version of Clash of the Titans. However, to me your particular avatar pic looks like it might be from an album cover. So I wanted (and would still like) to know whether that's actually the case - and if so, which band/artist has used it. I've alreeady googled, whether it might be from the soundtrack, but that has a different cover.

Oh, and I think another reason that hifi audio became less mainstream was that especially from the mid 80s on quite a bit of other new and interesting stuff came up and reduced the spare time and budget share for hifi - like gaming consoles, home & personal computers & peripherals, stereo vcrs, fax machines, cordless phones, big stereo tv sets and even personal/portable and car audio.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[George W]

Think about the state of personal audio back then. There were headphones and headphone amps that cost $1,000. They weren't portable, but they were personal.
The Sony Walkman created the demand that we are still invested in. In 1982 I couldn't afford a Walkman for college, but in 1985 I spent almost $300 for a Kenwood portable CD player that had 10 seconds of buffered memory and a rechargeable battery. You see, once the market had been created, it took off like a bullet, only 3 years from portable cassette to portable CD.

I think portable video got its boost from music videos. I didn't know anyone with a portable video camera in 1981, but in 1984 camcorders were everywhere at a price of $1500. The creation of MTV created a demand in the public that hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.

Even today, I took my wife to JCPenny and what did I see on the floor entirely devoted to woman's clothing? A kiosk with Selfie Sticks! I thought it was interesting that this little kiosk wasn't too far from the lady's dressing rooms.

 

[lini]

GW: Sorry, but I doubt your memory - 'cause not only I'd doubt that one could get a Kenwood pcdp for just 300 bucks in 1985, I also highly doubt that this player would have featured buffer memory for 10 seconds, 'cause iirc the first pcdps with buffer memory didn't appear before the early 90s. I remember that pretty well, because I've still got one of the first generation antishock memory models, the Sanyo CDP-55A, which iirc only sported 3 seconds of antishock memory (probably because DRAM still was pretty expensive at that time...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Sansui_Boy]

you all need to listen to a sansui end of discussion...

 

[just dave]

My belief is that the late 1970s and early 80s was the peak or plateauing for analog technology and for stereo, which was pushed aside by the TV sound systems. At least two analog engineers agree with me on this.

The late 70s early 80s stereo gear was designed to compete in an ultra competitive market with all of the big electronics companies giving it their best shot to capture market share and profits. Since the big boys were in, their purchasing power, assembly plants, and shared engineering resources helped to keep down the cost of the equipment.

The US dollar at this time was $35 an oz to gold, today it is what $1600 oz, so the US purchasing power was 45x in inflated numbers and compared to the Yen was probably 10x stronger at the time. A lot of the totl Japanese stuff was all hand assembled and hand soldered and designed by a totl audio engineer who was probably earning $20K a year in today money.

In a way, the TOTL audio products of this era, were heavily subsidized by the medium and low end stereo purchasers who paid much of the overhead costs for the manufactures and retailers. The totl were the statement products and the pride and joy of the company and our good luck today.

When the Yen was strong 20 years ago, in addition to buying a lot of over-priced real estate, they sucked probably a couple of hundred million dollars worth of speakers and audio gear off of the US used market and back to Japan.

Great post.I'm a big fan of the gear from that time period.I believe the build quality and sound was top notch.

 

[DOBIEGUY]

Well look at the guys good business practices usually call for brushing your teeth, shaving, taking a shower, and a good hair cut! I wonder how much Einstein was worth when he died?

Hey Ken
I'm not sure what you or bare are trying to get at or even what you are saying.
With regards to John Curl, he was at the dawn of hi-end hi-fi.
His early work with Mark Levinson created the first truly hi-end preamps and power amps.
Check out an interview at PARASOUND.COM
Unquestionably right up there with the greatest,innovative designers.