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Do I need a phono preamp?

BA3000

BA3000

New Member
I have a Koetsu cartridge with an output of 0.4 Millivolts. My receiver is a Marantz 2275. My question is, do I need an additional phono preamp to accommodate the moving coil cartridge? I have been listening to my turntable with it connected directly to the Marantz receiver, with the only “issue” to my ears being that the music plays at a lower volume unless I turn up about twice as much as with other inputs. But, is not getting the proper output from my receiver a sound quality issue as well? Or is it just related to volume and power?

Also, I’ll take recommendations on preamps if I do in fact need one.

Thanks.
 
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You need one. Moving Coil cartridges have much lower output than most MM types. They require more gain in the preamp, but most receivers, integrated amps, and a lot of preamps only have a MM phono-stage, if that. Someone will be along with a recommendation shortly, I'm sure...
 
@BA3000 - you’ll want to look into getting a “head” amplifier, or into a “SUT” (step up transformer). Either one will bump up the output from that Koetsu to that of a MM or MI cartridge, so that you can use the regular phono input on your Marantz.

I’m an SUT user for a cartridge with the same output as your Koetsu.

Mr. Rothwell, one of the AK members here, makes both SUT’s and head amplifiers. Check out Rothwell for more info.
 
If you enjoy your Koetsu as currently set up, there is nothing wrong with that, and you can continue using it that way. Be careful about switching to another source with the volume set at a good level for records, in that case - damage could result.

If you want to take it further, and use the cartridge 'properly', adding a 1:10 step-up transformer before the Marantz's phono input would boost the Koetsu's voltage output by a factor of 10, giving 4 millivolts instead of .4 millivolts. This is in the same range as a typical moving magnet cartridge, and would eliminate most of the need for turning the volume knob up so far. The benefit of doing so sonically would be reduced noise and a slightly clearer signal. You could use the SUT for other LOMC cartridges in the future. It will sound better that way than the majority of MC-capable phono stages under $1K new, IME.

Welcome to AK, and please don't mind the ribbing. Bored members need something to do! :)
 
sqlsavior said:
If you enjoy your Koetsu as currently set up, there is nothing wrong with that, and you can continue using it that way. Be careful about switching to another source with the volume set at a good level for records, in that case - damage could result.

If you want to take it further, and use the cartridge 'properly', adding a 1:10 step-up transformer before the Marantz's phono input would boost the Koetsu's voltage output by a factor of 10, giving 4 millivolts instead of .4 millivolts. This is in the same range as a typical moving magnet cartridge, and would eliminate most of the need for turning the volume knob up so far. The benefit of doing so sonically would be reduced noise and a slightly clearer signal. You could use the SUT for other LOMC cartridges in the future. It will sound better that way than the majority of MC-capable phono stages under $1K new, IME.

Welcome to AK, and please don't mind the ribbing. Bored members need something to do! :)
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+1

When I got my moving coil cartridge it came with a step up transformer that allowed me to bypass the transformers with the flick of a switch. The only difference is volume. If you can get the volume you want without an SUT or head amp, then you really don't "need" one. It then becomes an option and you need to decide if you want one and if so, is it worth the cost to you.

Good Luck

Shelly_D
 
You’ll get 100 different answers on this one. If I were you I’d buy the best phono preamp I could. Makes a big difference in SQ and you can buy whatever cart you want and adjust accordingly
 
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Yes you need either a MC phono stage or a Sut. Not knowing what your budget is makes it difficult for recommendations as there are lots of them to choose from. But with that said you could take a look at the Graham Slee Acession and or the Graham Slee Elevator Exp.

Also a member on here has his kits that you can build or I believe @Nashou66 can build them they are the Wyn Palmer phono stages and are supposed to be excellent for the money.

Audiofreak71
 
BA3000 said:
I have a Koetsu cartridge with an output of 0.4 Millivolts. My receiver is a Marantz 2275. My question is, do I need an additional phono preamp to accommodate the moving coil cartridge? I have been listening to my turntable with it connected directly to the Marantz receiver, with the only “issue” to my ears being that the music plays at a lower volume unless I turn up about twice as much as with other inputs. But, is not getting the proper output from my receiver a sound quality issue as well? Or is it just related to volume and power?

Also, I’ll take recommendations on preamps if I do in fact need one.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Yeah just to be fair, I'm only having fun with you on those posts. The insider information you don't have is that my dad passed last year and I inherited some stuff, so questions like yours would be expected if I had inherited that setup. There are all sorts of reasons to ask questions. It's just fun to run with the possibilities. :)
 
Marantz gear of that vintage have very good built-in RIAA phono inputs. Maybe even the best of all hi-fi gear from that era. I have a Marantz 3600/250M, similar era, maybe a year or two newer than what you have.

I’d try the SUT first. That may just do the trick for your Marantz receiver.

BTW, I use MM/MI carts and didn’t necessarily need an outboard phono pre for my Stanton and Pickering carts. But being the obsessive nut I am, I had to get one. I bought a Parks Audio Budgie tube Phono Pre. I’d read about them many years back. They are no longer made, but do pop up on eBay and other sites every now and then.

For rock or blues, no real difference. But for acoustic, Americana, Appalachian, (Gillian Welch) or very open music with strong female vocal content and strings, it did seem to really shine there. I suppose I could have done without it. (If things hit the skids, it will be the first thing I sacrifice:rolleyes:) .

YMMV
 
BA3000 said:
I have a Koetsu cartridge with an output of 0.4 Millivolts. My receiver is a Marantz 2275. My question is, do I need an additional phono preamp to accommodate the moving coil cartridge? I have been listening to my turntable with it connected directly to the Marantz receiver, with the only “issue” to my ears being that the music plays at a lower volume unless I turn up about twice as much as with other inputs. But, is not getting the proper output from my receiver a sound quality issue as well? Or is it just related to volume and power?

Also, I’ll take recommendations on preamps if I do in fact need one.

Thanks.
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Get a Step Up transformer instead of a head amp. I have used a pair of Altec/Peerless 4722 and currently a pair of RCA MI 12399’s. Both are excellent for the Koetsu. I have the Rosewood Signature. Same output as yours.
 
I found the SUT does more than just bump the output signal . My preamp has enough gain to run the Koetsu without any stepup. But it did not sound nearly as rich and life like even after adjusting for the same volume. I have only ever tried one head amp, a Dragonfly, the sut was a big improvement over it as well.
 
I see quite a few Denon AU 320 step up transformers on ebay for very reasonable prices. That should do nicely .
 
Funny how some folks prefer SUT’s - but some say head amps sound better. I suppose it all depends on how good either one is.
The phono preamps I use have enough gain and loading options to make a .4mV MC cartridge sound good - but I still like the sound better with an SUT and the preamp gain set lower.

BTW - have we lost the original poster on this..?
 
MisterDK said:
Funny how some folks prefer SUT’s - but some say head amps sound better.
Click to expand...

I have a couple of SUT's and a bunch of pre's. The SUT's I have, HK XT-2 transformers and a McMartin MT-2 set. Both sound great but have a hum I can't remedy. The hum is sooper low but still there when nothing is playing. I gave up trying to fix it. Still use them frequently though.
 
This is all VERY helpful to me and has cleared up a lot. Thanks for all of the responses, everyone! Even the ribbers. For the record: I am not a thief. I bought a VPI turntable with the Koetsu Rosewood Signature attached for only $350 at an estate sale in Boston several years ago. It was probably the best thing I will ever find second hand. So that’s how I have such a high-end cartridge without knowing all of what’s recommended for getting the most out of it. But I’ve really been trying to understand more about the gear that I have so I can update and outfit my setup accordingly. Also, I posted my question on my lunch break at work and I haven’t had time to check back in until now.

My budget is about $500, but of course I would rather spend less than that. Thanks billyz. The Denon DU 320 seems like it might be the one for me. The price is right! The Parks Audio Budgie looks beautiful, but there aren't any on eBay.

What is the difference between a SUT and a Head Amp?
 
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