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Do i need a sub with large speakers?

Many modern AV receivers have volume controls that use dB to express levels. With the Yamaha receiver in my bedroom system I can easily hear a 3dB difference in level. If I listen closely I can hear a 2dB difference. A 1dB difference is pretty much inaudible to me. This was done using ordinary program material. It's possible that when using a sine wave with a single tone I would be able to hear a 1dB level difference. However, it's not important enough to me to bother checking.
 
Sure, but half of "twice as loud" is still "significantly louder"

I wouldn't call 3dB "barely audible" either. Most references I've found indicate 3dB as a threshold for "easily perceptible increase in volume" with 1dB being the limit of perceptibly. Being a log scale, the difference between 1dB and 3dB is quite significant.

There's also the issue of human perception of sound intensity at different frequencies to consider, on top of the already mentioned potential tuning/driver sensitivity differences.
I don't think you will be able to reason with 'em Nate. Once misinterpreted, and spouted on the interweb a few dozen times, it becomes "fact". Doesn't matter if they have tested their "opinion" with a SPL meter or not.

And make sure not to say that you have tested 70% correct @3/4db or you'll be called a robot. BTDT:D
 
I rough-calibrate my surround sound system by ear, using pink noise.
Then, I follow it up using an SPL meter.
I'm usually within 1-2dB of having the speakers matched.

With pink noise, I can guarantee 3dB would be no problem for me to hear the difference.
Music might be different since it is not a constant stream of sound at all frequencies.
New music probably less so, since some of it is so heavily compressed as to darn near BE a steady stream of sound at all frequencies.
 
I certainly didn't think so. Then I was practically given a broken Polk Pro 660. Fixed the issue, And that subtle boost at around 60-80hz really changed my mind. My main speakers have a 12" bass driver.
And this is the thing. For some speakers, especially nearfield and towers, a sub is not absolutely needed. You can get awfully close to what you want to hear. But in my current system I have 4 7" woofers that can reach down to around 35hz with authority. I still spent time and money on an 18" sub to compliment them. Supposedly, there was really no need for that.

But it shows through in the music. I have been known to push the signal to that 18", but I don't do it very often. What it's there for is to give that gentle bolster to the already very good 30-50hz area. I'm using an FMOD inline crossover, and they aren't exactly..."analytic". They're sloppy. They let some of the above 50hz signal bleed over. And the thing is, it works for the system and the sound. It's not like a digital crossover where the part of the signal you are trying to keep out just plain isn't allowed. It's not even like an integrated analog dial where you can MOSTLY shut out everything above a certain hz mark. It' just somewhat evenly rolls off all the stuff above 50hz. At a nice low volume, all of a sudden you're not ever straining to hear the bassist, regardless of the mix. It reinforces the separation and imaging, in a way that only a low volume, high displacement driver can. You're "feeling" the lows, but not because of volume, but instead because of SPL and subtle transients that blend into the greater whole.

Now that it sounds like I'm contradicting myself, I'll slowly wander over to the nice men in white standing by their windowless van...
 
And this is the thing. For some speakers, especially nearfield and towers, a sub is not absolutely needed. You can get awfully close to what you want to hear. But in my current system I have 4 7" woofers that can reach down to around 35hz with authority. I still spent time and money on an 18" sub to compliment them. Supposedly, there was really no need for that.

But it shows through in the music. I have been known to push the signal to that 18", but I don't do it very often. What it's there for is to give that gentle bolster to the already very good 30-50hz area. I'm using an FMOD inline crossover, and they aren't exactly..."analytic". They're sloppy. They let some of the above 50hz signal bleed over. And the thing is, it works for the system and the sound. It's not like a digital crossover where the part of the signal you are trying to keep out just plain isn't allowed. It's not even like an integrated analog dial where you can MOSTLY shut out everything above a certain hz mark. It' just somewhat evenly rolls off all the stuff above 50hz. At a nice low volume, all of a sudden you're not ever straining to hear the bassist, regardless of the mix. It reinforces the separation and imaging, in a way that only a low volume, high displacement driver can. You're "feeling" the lows, but not because of volume, but instead because of SPL and subtle transients that blend into the greater whole.

Now that it sounds like I'm contradicting myself, I'll slowly wander over to the nice men in white standing by their windowless van...

Well said. I'm stepping up to a REL acoustic stadium "12 very soon. Good reviews for a tight musical sub.
 
I'd hope so for $3K! At that point, wouldn't it be better to consider the SVS SB16 Ultra for $2k? I guess I don't know that much about the higher ends subs.

It's actually used, But your right, The SVS SB 4000 worth a look and listen. We have a friend who installs home theater gear. So access to small discounts, Or used stuff.
 
You're welcome to stop by eastern Ct for a listen as well. If it's an indication I also have khorns and rebuilt ADS 1530's which are in secondary systems. They both sound nice but they're not even close to the sound of the "terrible idea" "horizontal mids" on the 1.2tl's.

Great minds think alike
 
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