Do i need a sub with large speakers?

[EngineerNate]

...and everyone basically forgot about the OP....that's not nice, folks....

I tried to steer us back with a gentle reminder to be nice, but eh. Can't win them all.

OP- If you want to stick with the Bose, I'd get a sub. The discussion about the KLH is informative but if you can't fit them in your room it's kind of pointless continuing to discuss them, no?

I'll make another suggestion-if you're budget limited, grabbing a set of mains, smaller than the KLH but with better extension than the Bose, might net you a better overall improvement than simply adding a sub to the Bose setup. Something vintage from another user here or something better and newer than the Bose could be acquired with minimal effort and cash outlay. At some level the mains are the most important part of the system, so it makes sense to start there with upgrades.

Sub wise, I'd be looking hard at the new THX certified series from Monoprice. Two of the 10" with the ports sealed up should be amazing for music.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24456

 

[GChief]

"On the decibel scale, doubling the intensity corresponds to an increase of 3 dB. This does not correspond to a perceived doubling of loudness, however.

We need a nail on the head emoji.

 

[EngineerNate]

We need a nail on the head emoji.

I don't think that statement was ever in question.

 

[GChief]

I don't think that statement was ever in question.

I did the right thing and read what I wrote before posting. Nothing at you Nate but I did sound like an ass ✌

 

[robgmn]

I wish there was an app for my phone to test hz levels

There is, but you'll need a microphone to plug into it.
You can get one from Dayton for about twenty-five bucks.

 

[EngineerNate]

I did the right thing and read what I wrote before posting. Nothing at you Nate but I did sound like an ass ✌

Nah you're good man. I'm just baffled by the "argument" this thread became. There was no real disagreement on the science or definitions but we get caught up on personal definitions of what level of dB change "mattered".

I'll own that my sarcasm in finding my reference material stoked the fire. I think the hyperbole on my statements may have been taken seriously which would make them somewhat more inflammatory.

I was originally simply proffering one potential reason a given sub would play with more volume/authority than another. Whether it's by 3dB, 5 dB or 10 dB, given an identical driver feeding it an extra 300W is going to change it's output. It's going to change the authority with which the amp handles the driver. It's going to change the way it interacts with the room and integrates with the rest of the system. I don't think that's contentious. Since the drivers and alignments in question are completely different the point was primarily academic. Without knowing the tuning and driver sensitivity comparing wattage is meaningless.

3dB difference in an anechoic chamber might not be that big a deal, but small adjustments in output can make a huge difference in how a system integrates as a whole, both in the way separate speakers integrate and how they interact with the room they're in. Our ears may only perceive 3dB as a slight increase, but every surface in the room is getting hit with a lot more energy. That matters when listening to a system in a real room.

I love discussing these things. I've found the science of sound to be fascinating for years. I love it even more when we can teach and learn from one another without condescension or patronizing tones.

Cheers
Nathan

 

[jazzmans]

OP, in my opinion, with the speakers you have, yes.

Yes, you will hear an improvement on your current system with a (preferably two at least) sub(s)
the key is turn them down,down,down til you don't hear them, keep the crossover as low as is right for your setup.

 

[Nixxuz]

Not toy, 15" dual coil, active EQ & "D" class power amp.

Sofia is collateral.

Indeed.

 

[motorstereo]

I think horizontally arranged mids are generally a terrible idea, but I still want to hear these.

You're welcome to stop by eastern Ct for a listen as well. If it's an indication I also have khorns and rebuilt ADS 1530's which are in secondary systems. They both sound nice but they're not even close to the sound of the "terrible idea" "horizontal mids" on the 1.2tl's.

 

[the skipper]

Sorry about the brouhaha, Nate but you made at least two "confusing" statements, both after two of us offered our first hand experieince with two subs that went against your suggestion. First.

150W plate amp vs 475W plate amp. ]

This was quickly pointed out that you were comparing a RMS figure to an inflated peak power figure. You did alibi you way out of the RMS/peak mistatment, though. But, when I pointed out that, ultimately, even if they were comparable numbers, the difference wouldn't be all that major things took an unsuspected turn.

I was just going by the advertised number.
@the skipper - considering 10 dB is "twice as loud" to the human ear, even ~+5dB is a substantial increase. There could also be differences in port timing/driver efficiency coming into play here as well..

Now, the links I posted, in two posts, did try to clearly explain that when talking decibels, numbers aren't exactly intuitive. Your link, well...

To restate it in a more concise fashion. assuming those two numbers were comparable, which they are not, with three db being barely audible, and ten db being obviously twice as loud, that leaves quite a change in that 7 db in between. ...particularly when the comparison was made using RMS vs peak power figures when, in fact, both subs had the exact same RMS rating.

You do have some good insights but you tend to go overboard on the hype, at least when ones (or twos) opinion differs from yours. Yes, I can be pedantic when I see misleading information, either intentional or through ignorance, being spread. I do try to keep the info here factual and try to educate as well.

Have a good day.

 

[GChief]

I love discussing these things. I've found the science of sound to be fascinating for years.

As do I. Being a Sonarman for 23 yrs ( and a pretty good one) I have a very firm grasp on how sound works traveling through different materials, SPL’s, refraction, reflection, etc etc. I try to stay out of these discussions as I have found plenty of then on here that are just people stating urban legends and wives tails as fact. And being a retired Sonar Chief I tend to be pretty blunt and hurt people’s feelings. Ignorance is not bliss but there is also nothing wrong with it! But some need to realize it and take the chance to learn. And that statement is not directed at this thread, just in general.

 

[motorstereo]

Sorry about the brouhaha, Nate but you made at least two "confusing" statements, both after two of us offered our first hand experieince with two subs that went against your suggestion. First.

This was quickly pointed out that you were comparing a RMS figure to an inflated peak power figure. You did alibi you way out of the RMS/peak mistatment, though. But, when I pointed out that, ultimately, even if they were comparable numbers, the difference wouldn't be all that major.

Now, the links I posted, in two posts, did try to clearly explain that when talking decibels, numbers aren't exactly intuitive. Your link, well...

To restate it in a more concise fashion. assuming those two numbers were comparable, which they are not, with three db being barely audible, and ten db being obviously twice as loud, that leaves quite a change in that 7 db in between. ...particularly when the comparison was made using RMS vs peak power figures when, in fact, both subs had the exact same RMS rating.

You do have some good insights but you tend to go overboard on the hype, at least when ones (or twos) opinion differs from yours. Yes, I can be pedantic when I see misleading information, either intentional or through ignorance, being spread. I do try to keep the info here factual and try to educate as well.

Have a good day.

Skipper; I dunno how you managed to get me quoted as posting those 2 replies but they are not mine

 

[GChief]

Yes, I can be pedantic when I see misleading information, either intentional or through ignorance, being spread. I do try to keep the info here factual and try to educate as well.

Yep, what you said sir!!

 

[the skipper]

Skipper; I dunno how you managed to get me quoted as posting those 2 replies but they are not mine

You are correct, sir. I apologize and will correct it immediately.

 

[motorstereo]

You are correct, sir. I apologize and will correct it immediately.

No problem skipper; I must admit it had me wondering there for a few minutes if I'd been PWD (posting while drunk) yesterday. But since I didn't have even one cold one there went that idea. I didn't know that could be done and it may be fun to do that to some one that had been PWD

 

[GChief]

one that had been PWD

My problem sometimes

 

[EngineerNate]

Sorry about the brouhaha, Nate but you made at least two "confusing" statements, both after two of us offered our first hand experieince with two subs that went against your suggestion. First.

This was quickly pointed out that you were comparing a RMS figure to an inflated peak power figure. You did alibi you way out of the RMS/peak mistatment, though. But, when I pointed out that, ultimately, even if they were comparable numbers, the difference wouldn't be all that major things took an unsuspected turn.

Now, the links I posted, in two posts, did try to clearly explain that when talking decibels, numbers aren't exactly intuitive. Your link, well...

To restate it in a more concise fashion. assuming those two numbers were comparable, which they are not, with three db being barely audible, and ten db being obviously twice as loud, that leaves quite a change in that 7 db in between. ...particularly when the comparison was made using RMS vs peak power figures when, in fact, both subs had the exact same RMS rating.

You do have some good insights but you tend to go overboard on the hype, at least when ones (or twos) opinion differs from yours. Yes, I can be pedantic when I see misleading information, either intentional or through ignorance, being spread. I do try to keep the info here factual and try to educate as well.

Have a good day.

The rms/peak thing was my fault for sure. I hate advertising numbers. I wasn't originally intending to disagree with your 3 dB number either. I was just thinking that if 3dB is just noticable and 10 dB is twice as loud, there has to be some middle ground between the two. Whether that's 4,5,7, or 8 dB I don't know.

After having slept on it, yeah, my bad. I handle blunt we'll (and prefer it even) but if I catch a whiff of snark or condescension I tend to respond in kind. It's a personal failing. One that's made worse by the difficulty of reading tone over the internet and that's been exacerbated by recent political conversations elsewhere on the net.

Fwiw, I got curious ams went and found a website with a blind 3db increase/decrease test. I got it right 8/8 times but the difference was indeed subtle and I'm not convinced there were things other than the volume change in the playback that made them readily identifiable. I'll try it out on a better system (I just did it on my phone) later today.

Truce?

Cheers
Nathan

 

[GChief]

I handle blunt we'll (and prefer it even) but if I catch a whiff of snark or condescension I tend to respond in kind. It's a personal failing. One that's made worse by the difficulty of reading tone over the internet

Totally agree, I am sarcastic in everyday life but it’s always with a smile and chuckle when face to face. I am getting better at not posting my normal thoughts. But I am having a hard time finding my kindler gentler fingers.

 

[the skipper]

Not a problem, Nate. Remember, we're both on the same side and I just like to keep opinions and facts separate.

 

[Quadman2]

Aside for the tech side of trying to improve the lower end of sound, what kind of music do you listen to most times, Ross?

Q