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Do i need a sub with large speakers?

Ross moran said:
Not many options in current place .
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You say your happy with those big K's but that it's just not going to happen in that room. So close but yet so far. Well, then you got my sympathy. And to make matters worse I agree with MarZutra in post # 16
 
MannyE said:
I think he means that if your speakers don't go low enough, they are not speakers, but trash. Garbage to be thrown away and spit on. And I think he's joking, like

Well unless I get a divorce I will have to buy a sub . Might as well get some rears too and get a 5.1
The klh sound great and for sure wouldn' need a sub if I was able to run them too alongside the bose but I'm just not able too right now
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quiet said:
You say your happy with those big K's but that it's just not going to happen in that room. So close but yet so far. Well, then you got my sympathy. And to make matters worse I agree with MarZutra in post # 16
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Me too. 2 subs for HT is the minimum if you really want that umph. And yes, one is better than none. For music, it really depends, but I've often wondered why. I feel that music wants speaker systems that can reproduce the greatest range possible. Kind of like headroom with amps. Of course, budget and space is a factor. I also think space is exponentially more a factor than budget.
 
Well unless I get a divorce I will have to buy a sub . Might as well get some rears too and get a 5.1
The klh sound great and for sure wouldn' need a sub if I was able to run them too alongside the bose but I'm just not able too right now
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Did you post the room dimensions? Could you do that so we have an idea what you are working with? I'm hearing that you like the Bose, but you need to run the KLH alongside them to get enough bass? then yes, you need a sub and get rid of the KLH and then get some rears...
 
Yes the subs will go on down there but it's possible they may not have the deep snap of the K's. Somethings going to be different. It may be trial and error. Uh oh.
 
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MarZutra said:
I think I agree where as with a good full range speaker the range tends to be very wide - full - especially with quality full range speakers for two channel listening.
My main speakers go down to comparable Hz levels as most subs. I believe 22Hz. When I was into HT, I ran two PS1200 by Paradigm. I had the full 7.2 Denon/Paradigm set up. Let me tell ya, with movies, subs are a MUST....especially 2.
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The 20-20KHz frequency response is such a joke. Pretty much any decent speaker can hit 20KHz--that's easy, but getting down below 40Hz really starts to get difficult without huge cabinets and creative design. It's all about the +/- dB output specifications over the stated range. I can rate a speaker (and this is typical) 50Hz-20KHz +/- 3dB, but I can take the same speaker and rate it at 38Hz-20KHz +/-6dB--you could really go "all out" and rate it at 22Hz-20KHz +/-10dB. I consider anything beyond -3dB as "out of useable range". Sure, the driver is putting out some sound below that cut-off point, but should not be considered relevant in the total useable frequency response range.
 
Yes, the label on those KLH's says 20 to 20,000. However, no level (+-dB) range is stated. In the real world those speakers most likely have output that drops steeply below 40 to 45Hz. While they may have some output at 20Hz it's probably inaudible.

savatage; You posted while I was composing this post.
 
You may not need a sub if your amp/receiver is putting out sufficient wattage, and you have a good set of speakers that "hit" hard. This seems to be the case with me, but I think I will eventually get a sub because I like deep bass. I will need to figure out how much or how little extra bass that I'll really need, but for now I'm happy with my set-up.
 
I agree with the other posters saying that those KLH aren't going to hit 20hz. Simply because I can tell by looking at the drivers that they don't have the kind of xmax necessary to do 20hz at any kind of volume.

That said, for me the other big reason to get a sub is that setup properly, they don't just add extension they reduce distortion and improve your overall power handling. By handing the most difficult to reproduce low frequencies over to a driver/amplifier dedicated to the task, your main speakers/amplifiers can play at the same spl with less strain and distortion.

Probably less important with a big three way, but with a two way main speaker and especially one with a smaller main driver (5-8") you can see dramatic improvement in midrange performance by getting the bass out of there.
 
MarZutra said:
I agree here especially when looking at speakers designed especially for HT which usually are rated 20Hz-20KHz. Most certainly won't reach the 20Hz - thus the addition of subs. My Epi are truly 'full range' in the most accurate description as the 22Hz is probably spot on the money with the low end. These things dig very DEEP.....
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Yes but they have huge cabinets? They weigh around 80 pounds each . How can you be sure yours hit 22hz
 
EngineerNate said:
I agree with the other posters saying that those KLH aren't going to hit 20hz. Simply because I can tell by looking at the drivers that they don't have the kind of xmax necessary to do 20hz at any kind of volume.

That said, for me the other big reason to get a sub is that setup properly, they don't just add extension they reduce distortion and improve your overall power handling. By handing the most difficult to reproduce low frequencies over to a driver/amplifier dedicated to the task, your main speakers/amplifiers can play at the same spl with less strain and distortion.

Probably less important with a big three way, but with a two way main speaker and especially one with a smaller main driver (5-8") you can see dramatic improvement in midrange performance by getting the bass out of there.
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Really. You'd think a massive 80 pound 4 foot speaker with 15 inch woofers would be able to produce some low bass
 
EngineerNate said:
I agree with the other posters saying that those KLH aren't going to hit 20hz. Simply because I can tell by looking at the drivers that they don't have the kind of xmax necessary to do 20hz at any kind of volume.

That said, for me the other big reason to get a sub is that setup properly, they don't just add extension they reduce distortion and improve your overall power handling. By handing the most difficult to reproduce low frequencies over to a driver/amplifier dedicated to the task, your main speakers/amplifiers can play at the same spl with less strain and distortion.

Probably less important with a big three way, but with a two way main speaker and especially one with a smaller main driver (5-8") you can see dramatic improvement in midrange performance by getting the bass out of there.
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His first post said the K's went plenty low for him. No need to buy the right stuff when he's happy with all the wrong stuff, except he can't keep them in the room.
Having said that I get what your saying on the rest.
 
Ross moran said:
Really. You'd think a massive 80 pound 4 foot speaker with 15 inch woofers would be able to produce some low bass
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Your asking the right questions, Your going to be happy in the end. Keep asking till you get the info you can understand and use.
Don't let these nice folks get lazy on you. They have the info you need it's just going to take a little conversation.
 
If it's plenty low then why are we talking about subs in the first place? :confused:

In response to OP-weight is great and indicates good construction materials (most of the time) but has very little to go with the actual performance of the speaker. It's a byproduct of the design more than anything.

20hz isn't just "some low bass", it's approaching the very limits of human heading. To hit 100dB @ 1m two 15" drivers would need 6mm or so of excursion. Unless the driver looks like this on the inside of your box:

https://www.parts-express.com/peerl...-188pr01-04-15-high-power-subwoofer--264-1652

It's unlikely they're hitting 6mm of excursion without bumping up against their physical limitations, which causes distortion.
 
I will be playing some test tones tonight when I can hook them. Up in the living room see if it can play 20hz audible or how low they will play too
 
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