Do new capacitors in a crossover need breaking in?

[DaveVoorhis]

Refer to the last line at the bottom of the page.

http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/audiocap_1.html

It's a standard disclaimer from makers of "audiophile grade" capacitors, no doubt to avoid a high volume of returns from folks who install new caps, interpret the changed sound as bad and think the caps are defective.

Capacitors don't break in; your brain "breaks in".

Human brains are very sensitive to subtle changes in sound (or any sense), but often interpret a subtle change as wrongness. It's probably a vestige of a survival skill -- sensing the subtle and "wrong" shift in background noise might indicate a lurking tiger or crouching enemy.

It takes a little while to get used to the slightly changed sound of a recapped speaker (or amp) and recognise that it's better and not an indication that something's wrong.

 

[EarHole]

Do the capacitors break in or do your ears adjust to the sound hmmmmm?

 

[valvenator]

The only way to be somewhat sure is to have two speakers, one with 100 hours on the caps and one with no hours on new caps and A/B them.

Wouldn't be hard to do either except no one wants to listen to a single speaker for a 100 hours.
like they say in the tootsie roll pop commercial "the world may never know"

 

[50nstillhifi]

A lot. We did prove that Budweiser makes systems sound better.

 

[unfairlane]

It's a standard disclaimer from makers of "audiophile grade" capacitors, no doubt to avoid a high volume of returns from folks who install new caps, interpret the changed sound as bad and think the caps are defective.

Capacitors don't break in; your brain "breaks in".

Oh please stop repeating this lies Dave. Leave this to moore skilled listeners

 

[50nstillhifi]

Well.... this has been a great discussion and I admire those that can comment and keep the exchange civil... while enjoying each others perspective (no matter which direction it is going).

I try to maintain an "old school and open" perspective myself... well I wish to believe this... most times

When I get "closed minded"... I watch one of my favorite movies.. "Crimson Tide". A great depiction of what could happen when we shut down or dismiss another perspective/evaluation of circumstances based on ego... seniority... privilege-by-experience.

I am quite sure the human mind is a fantastic biological machine, quite capable of sensitive and majestic interpolations... even in our modern and scientific world.

If I have embraced one concept ... or cliche'.. "things are never as they seem". And that's what keeps life interesting!

Apologize... if I digressed from the subject matter

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Oh please stop repeating this lies Dave. Leave this to moore skilled listeners

Why do you think it's a lie?

Given the notable absence of evidence in electronics and electrical engineering literature of anything like capacitor break-in (aside from electrolytic capacitors needing to be reformed after not being used for a long time) plus a considerable body of literature on psychoacoustic effects, it seems there's good evidence in favour of psychoacoustic explanations for "capacitor break-in".

Of course, that doesn't eliminate the possibility that there might be some heretofore unknown-to-science physical change in capacitor properties that produces in acoustic effects, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence to support it, particularly when "but I hear it!" is exactly what we expect from psychoacoustic effects.

I'm not sure why this is controversial. We know that what we know has an effect on what we hear. That isn't controversial at all.

For me, part of the fun of this hobby is making an effort to control or eliminate psychoacoustic effects, so that I can be confident that differences I hear are genuinely due to physical differences in acoustics rather than merely being a result of what I know.

 

[TudorTurtle]

Oh I love a good Cap break-in discussion!
As a recovering engineer, I can't make the leap of faith that a cap changes performance during the first 48 hours of use. Maybe the first 48 seconds...
BUT, I could believe a new cap might change the driver behavior in a way that causes the driver to break into the new cap.

 

[Arthur Smith]

Simply put? No.

 

[friendlyvolc]

I just recapped my nearly fifty year old Bozak Symphony speakers. I did one and compared to the old one. NIght and day: highs, mids and bass all far more evident and spatial. I never thought the old cap version was terrible, perhaps a bit rolled off, but in comparison to the newly capped one it was like an old smelly blanket was draped over it.

I did the other speaker and my first reaction was: boy there is a lot of treble...my records are much more crackly than I thought.

After a few days of the newly capped speakers, the harsh has gone away. But I know this is brain based. Humans are good at simultaneous comparisons and lousy at sequential comparisons. Our brains adjust inputs in all sorts of ways: for example, if you wear a pair of pink sunglasses, everything looks pink for a moment, but then colors gradually become correct again. Remove them quickly and every thing looks green for a moment until the brain has a chance to adjust back to normal.

I believe the same is true with relative degrees of audio tonality. Our ears get used to a certain speaker and fill in the missing frequencies. That's why lousy AM radios can sound great. We're too busy enjoying the music to worry about full spectrum until we hear a really good system in comparison.

So I don't believe caps change over the short term on first use. Our brains do.

 

[50nstillhifi]

I just recapped my nearly fifty year old Bozak Symphony speakers. I did one and compared to the old one. NIght and day: highs, mids and bass all far more evident and spatial. I never thought the old cap version was terrible, perhaps a bit rolled off, but in comparison to the newly capped one it was like an old smelly blanket was draped over it.

I did the other speaker and my first reaction was: boy there is a lot of treble...my records are much more crackly than I thought.

After a few days of the newly capped speakers, the harsh has gone away. But I know this is brain based. Humans are good at simultaneous comparisons and lousy at sequential comparisons. Our brains adjust inputs in all sorts of ways: for example, if you wear a pair of pink sunglasses, everything looks pink for a moment, but then colors gradually become correct again. Remove them quickly and every thing looks green for a moment until the brain has a chance to adjust back to normal.

I believe the same is true with relative degrees of audio tonality. Our ears get used to a certain speaker and fill in the missing frequencies. That's why lousy AM radios can sound great. We're too busy enjoying the music to worry about full spectrum until we hear a really good system in comparison.

So I don't believe caps change over the short term on first use. Our brains do.

Interesting .... theory....

 

[50nstillhifi]

I suppose "psycho-acoustics".. is a real and tangible element of any sound system.

I find this discussion fascinating, and the many different ways the posters have proposed sound is both heard and absorbed. In my travels, there seems to be a dynamic that in fact will influence your internalizing of sound or even your surroundings daily. I site as my example, the difference in a car ride with the windows up, ... as opposed to the windows down. Throw in the stereo.. or on-board music device and you certainly can have different "listening" experiences.

Needless to say, any given sound system generates the same, during your active listening. The amplified sound, the reproduced harmonics, and then what you actually "hear". I tend to think listening, is a combination of these factors, and I would not be surprised if the final interpretation by the brain... is actually a finely tuned mixture of "known and unknown" influences. Might this even include the electrical modulations of a capacitor and inductor or both... Why not?

 

[gslikker]

For some, what other people say or write is the major known or unknown influence.