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Do Speaker Cables Make a Difference? Science Weighs In.

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Thanks for posting that write up, Ken. I have thought about speaker cables mainly for looks and convenience, but I see that there are other considerations, too.
 
So, the conclusion here is that you shouldn't use skinny cables, because a difference was measured. That seems OK. In some ways this even seems to match common sense.

But, to go on and extrapolate from that to implying other changes in cables are going to be quite audible is really over-reaching - IMHO...
 
So, the conclusion here is that you shouldn't use skinny cables, because a difference was measured. That seems OK. In some ways this even seems to match common sense.

But, to go on and extrapolate from that to implying other changes in cables are going to be quite audible is really over-reaching - IMHO...

I don't know about that last remark. Mind you I've not read that article but only replying to your last remark.

I have 2 pair of speaker cables in my room right now. A pair of Analysis Plus Clear Oval 14 gauge speaker cable and a pair of Analysis Plus Oval 9 gauge speaker cable. The volume remained the same on the amp as I went back and forth switching out both cables. The difference was not close...nothing subtle about the difference.....there was a huge gap in the sound. The 14 gauge was just right with magic....the 9 gauge was shouty. Cables do make a difference.
 
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This thread should put the cable wars in the past thanks to Urizen. :thmbsp:

I believe proven scientific facts outweigh mere opinions.
 
This thread should put the cable wars in the past thanks to Urizen. :thmbsp:

Seems unlikely to me :smoke:

To me, that article makes it plausible that you might easily get broad-band (more than an octave) differences of 0.1-0.2 dB - if you're really familiar with a system and the music, that's plenty to hear a difference. And I don't think they're capturing everything - I'm not sure that steady-state measurements capture everything that's going on with transients. I'd love to have seen a broader suite of measurements.

That said, a very interesting read - thanks for posting, Ken.
 
To me, that article makes it plausible that you might easily get broad-band (more than an octave) differences of 0.1-0.2 dB - if you're really familiar with a system and the music, that's plenty to hear a difference.

I also gleaned this from the article.
 
It is not IF speaker cables make a difference, but HOW significant is it.

Here is what John Dunlavy thought: http://www.verber.com/mark/ce/cables.html

and Edgar Villchur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZGsEu0VDiE

Thanks for sharing these two additional links !

I appreciate the dry irony that Edgar Villchur used 18-guage Zip Cord for many of those historical "live vs. recorded" concerts.
While technology, engineering, manufacturing, etc... has evolved since those concerts, and given us more options; the human ear is engineered the same way (and if anything, today's "ears" are worse due to high volumes of background noise, and not taking the time to be trained to appreciate subtle nuances)

Like a lot of things in life, this is open to personal beliefs, values, meanings & associations. Or - if we're going to get "Zen" about it:
"If a tree falls in a forest, and no one can see the Speaker Wire being used to reproduce it, does it still make the same quality sound ?"
 
Interesting. Pretty much what the owners manual for my AR-90s shows about length vs. wire guage. A have alway used 12 guage wire on my speakers and cut them to length so they are exactly the same length and just long enough to reach the farthest speaker. (with enough slack to get to the gear if I need to)

Probably due for a cable upgrade soon. Have to start looking soon. (can't think of anything else to buy right now)
 
All AR speakers were made with 18g internal wiring and its obvious the terminals on the back were not intended for anything more than 16-18g.

If you increase the internal wiring of a well designed and well performing speaker and you hear an audible improvement, the chances are you just refreshed old corroded contacts to get that result. Sometimes even just the opening and closing of a speaker improves things if the gaskets around the drivers were leaking air.

And lets not forget placebo. Your expectations to hear a difference are high and you will start listening for things and you will hear them. Only because you never bothered to critically listen before.

I was thinking of rewiring my AR-11s and decided to leave them in factory condition, I just cleaned all contacts with WD40, nongreasing contact cleaner and alcohol.
 
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If you increase the internal wiring of a well designed and well performing speaker and you hear an audible improvement, the chances are you just refreshed old corroded contacts to get that result.

And you have done this? If not, the above is pure speculation and contrary to this forum's intent.

Once again, experience trumps supposition.
 
And you have done this? If not, the above is pure speculation and contrary to this forum's intent.

Once again, experience trumps supposition.

I have a soldering gun and scars to prove it.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=370025&page=2

Also I have participated in other cable threads on AK where I mentioned I have positive expeirence with changing speaker cables, especially when I moved from stranded lytz copper to solid core conductor. Namely I replaced 12AWG Jamo OFC for Audioquest Type4 and on every speaker+amp combination the Audioquest solid core or my DIY CAT6 solid core cable won.
 
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Looks like the same old wire to me. Fire up that iron and report back, and this time, wear pants.

5.jpg


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Ken, these are the first speaker that I owned and didn't rewire, including a pair of Wharfedale MACH5s, which were crap altogether and I didn't bother. I rewired Tannoy DC1000, Profile 631, Cerwin-Vegas, AR-6, JBL Eon 15s, even the little Wharfedale Diamond IIs. Most of them I also recapped.

Since no audible result came with my previous endeavors I hold the opinion that factory wiring is sufficient and going overboard rarely yields results.

Pants on. :D
 
Thank you, Jack, er, um...Vlad. I do have to ask, if you heard no results after the first two, why proceed with four more?
 
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Thanks for posting that link Urizen, super moderator. Pretty similar to what many of us have been writing right here on AK for years now. Will this change anything? Extremely doubtful. In fact, I'm wonder if any facts or opinions shared on the Internet has the ability to change anyone's minds? If so, probably pretty rare when it does.

Alas, although I classify this article as a "good one" (since it aligns with my own experiences, measurements, and opinions), I really have to question if the author actually reads what he writes? No, make that, actually thinks about what he writes? Let me explain...

He starts out by saying that the DC component (resistance) has a bigger effect than L and C, so the AC components (L & C) can be ignored. Well, actually he says that "normal speaker cable doesn't have significant capacitance or inductance," and then proceeds to ignore them. Then he mentions some Toole/Olive research which suggests "midrange peaks of just 0.3 dB were audible" and sets that as a limit to his chart of calculated max lengths for various gauges of speaker cable with a particular hypothetical speaker. Then, he makes real-world measurements, followed by a short discussion of these measurements. Right off, he dismisses the differences between the two 12ga cables and focuses on the performance of the 24ga cable. I find the difference of the two 12ga cables to be of extreme interest. They had a max reported difference of 0.4dB, and Toole/Olive state that 0.3dB difference is audible, but he chooses to ignore it. Now, I do realize Toole/Olive stated a low-Q resonance was audible at 0.3dB difference, and that the reported frequency range of the difference was less than an octave, which isn't high-Q, but it may not be low-Q. But, since these are both 12ga cables, the DCR is going to be the same, so the L and C differences of the cables are responsible for this difference in measured performance. Yet, he chooses to proclaim L&C aren't significant. What drives this point even further home is that the length of cable used for this test is 20 feet, and his chart says that a 12ga cable can be 47.23 feet long and not impact the sound more than 0.3dB for his calculated example. Had he used a 47 foot cable, the measured differences could be as high as 0.8 or 0.9dB. His data suggests to me that L and C are indeed worthy of our attention.

I applaud his efforts to make measurements of the actual acoustic output of his speakers. He goes to some length to describe the hoops he had to jump through to come up with good data. From my own personal experiences, I can agree that getting repeatable acoustic measurements to fractional dB levels is NOT an easy task. The thing is, he didn't have to put himself through such agony. He didn't have to move computers out of the room, do repetition for averaging, make sure he didn't move the speakers or mics when changing cables, or worry about typical environmental noises. He could have measured the signal electrically at the speaker terminals to arrive at the same information. The losses imparted by ALL cables are rather easily measured.

All my nit-picky comments aside, I still think it is a decent article and I sincerely hope that it sparks at least a glimmer of wonder in the reader's minds that perhaps cabling is indeed an important aspect of a high performance hi-fi.
 
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