Do Speaker Cables Make a Difference? Science Weighs In.

[nailer]

Nothing new in the OP article or in our responses. With well designed/executed cables the listeners' expectations/etc. will drive their sonic impressions. My experience is that speaker cables are more likely to make a significant sonic improvement than interconnects. ymmv

 

[ofajen]

I thought the test was interesting, but too narrow in focus. I'd like to see more testing done on say, one dielectric material vs. another, solid core vs. stranded, silver vs. copper, one geometry vs. another, etc. I think if any of these additional tests revealed differences then those differences could become cumulative on top of the gauge only test and lead to what might be bigger audible differences. Just thinking out loud here.

Agreed. I'd be curious to see if a particular cable has a measurable "signature" that remains consistent when used with a variety of amps and speakers, or whether it just ends up looking like a small, random perturbation with no consistency.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[RichPA]

.2 dB differences can't be detected reliably by humans. Not even close.

If you mean in terms of a JND for overall loudness, you are correct. If you read my post and understood what I meant - that a broadband variation of 0.2 dB could result in a perceived difference in tonality - you are wrong. Detectability of changes of this magnitude was demonstrated by Toole and Olive in 1988, for example.

 

[Soundminded]

Like the author, we wish this weren't so contentious. But based on experience, we'll stick with the observation that a) small differences can matter to music quality and b) cables can (measure and) sound different. Of course, if you haven't had that experience, or simply choose to go with your beliefs, you can ignore this article and its somewhat strange logic.

http://stereos.about.com/od/accesso...ables-Make-A-Difference-Science-Weighs-In.htm

"I then took the response with the Linn cable and divided it by the response of the Monoprice and RCA cables."

Why didn't he take the response of the Monoprice cable and divide it by the response of the Linn and RCA cable? He makes it look like the Linn cable is right and the others are off.

It hardly matters. You could easily duplicate or null out if you want these FR deviations with a graphic equalizer to were response fall within the 0.3db threshold of audibility. That's the problem for sellers of high end equipment. There isn't nearly the profit in graphic equalizers there is in cables and they don't keep coming back again and again when they want to "upgrade." They just move a few sliders around. Where's the profit in that?

 

[dumptruck]

A graphic EQ with narrow enough bands and enough precision for that sort of thing would be... well it wouldn't be. You need to go digital for that, and those products do exist, in the high end, eg. DEQX and various high end pro gear.

 

[dumptruck]

If you mean in terms of a JND for overall loudness, you are correct. If you read my post and understood what I meant - that a broadband variation of 0.2 dB could result in a perceived difference in tonality - you are wrong. Detectability of changes of this magnitude was demonstrated by Toole and Olive in 1988, for example.

Indeed, and thanks to audio software we can ABX this kind of thing ourselves if we want to, but you're not going to be able to judge which of the 0.2dB options is the "correct" one across multiple recordings. When we are talking about speaker response differences beyond the margin of error at SO MANY points from recording to amp output, it becomes more than a little silly. For one thing, "correct" doesn't exist to that precision in any practical sense, but also your speakers have way more error than that already, all over the place, not matter what they are.

 

[RayW]

Indeed, and thanks to audio software we can ABX this kind of thing ourselves if we want to, but you're not going to be able to judge which of the 0.2dB options is the "correct" one across multiple recordings. When we are talking about speaker response differences beyond the margin of error at SO MANY points from recording to amp output, it becomes more than a little silly. For one thing, "correct" doesn't exist to that precision in any practical sense, but also your speakers have way more error than that already, all over the place, not matter what they are.

That is all true, but if you take your system from recording to speakers as a constant and change only the cables and they show a broadband .2dB change then it can be detectable by human hearing. The speakers' variation from flat will be the bassline. Whether it is "correct" or not is not really the issue. The issue becomes is it preferable for that particular listener.

 

[dumptruck]

That is all true, but if you take your system from recording to speakers as a constant and change only the cables and they show a broadband .2dB change then it can be detectable by human hearing. The speakers' variation from flat will be the bassline. Whether it is "correct" or not is not really the issue. The issue becomes is it preferable for that particular listener.

Absolutely agreed, but the pertinent point there is that there is no reason to think what is preferable has anything to do with how expensive the wire is, or even how objectively good the wire is. It only has to do with the speaker and the room and the person. Personally, I don't have the patience to play around with speaker cable swaps as a 0.2dB shot-in-the-dark EQ.

 

[dumptruck]

Btw, all that discussion leaves out the point that you're not going to get much for broadband variation with any low-resistance wiring. The author of the article didn't really even discuss the narrow band differences in the heavy wire. I wonder if he suspected it to be measurement error. Say, is the James Randi $1 million prize still available or did it fall back to strictly paranormal claims when he died? Maybe I should design an absurdly reactive speaker and give it a go. I don't recall speakers being restricted in the rules. I'd probably still fail, but I could really use a million bucks, and the irony of a lampcord advocate winning that prize would be priceless.

 

[Soundminded]

A graphic EQ with narrow enough bands and enough precision for that sort of thing would be... well it wouldn't be. You need to go digital for that, and those products do exist, in the high end, eg. DEQX and various high end pro gear.

So you're saying that the FR of audiophile speaker wire is so jagged that you couldn't duplicate it with a 64 band graphic equalizer in a workstation? Well that is jagged. I knew they weren't very good but I didn't know they were THAT not very good.

 

[W9TR]

As an EE, analog and RF at that, I should be out there debunking the sonic differences in cables, shouting loudly about ABX, and using ohms law as my shield of righteousness. But I'm not, because I can hear differences in speaker cables in my system, in my home.

So what to do? Read interesting articles like the one the OP cited to start this thread. Understand that maybe we are not measuring the correct parameters in the right way. To accept the fact that the loudspeaker/cable/amplifier system is very complicated and does not lend itself to simple RLC and response measurement.

For example, most loudspeakers are non-linear and time variant. They store and release energy in very complex ways. So using RLC and Ohm's Law as a theoretical basis no longer completely represents what is happening.

I guess personally I've allowed for a little magic in my life, for things I am experiencing that I can't explain.

Nice thread. Well moderated.

Tom

 

[BayouTiger]

All i know is that contrary to my years of training in electronics, I swapped the older Monster MCX-1s cables for AQ Type4, my wife, who pays no attention to anything audio related, looked up from her iPad and said "Wow, that sounds much better". From someone that knows little about audio gear - quality or cost - and cares less, though she is an EE, that is a pretty decent testimonial, and completely caught me by surprise.

 

[datafone]

Sorry for focusing on the internal wiring so much. Back on topic.

I had 10 and 12 AWG speaker cables with OFC stranded copper (up to 500 strands). I decided to buy a pair of Audioquest Type4 because they were on discount and I had the itching disposable income that month. 13ft of Type 4 with no termination cost me 50$.

I expected no improvement, I just wanted the brand name, the badge. Within 3 days since I started using the solid core Type4 I began to hear much more detail, dynamics and imaging.

I was weary if this is placebo or what. I took the Type 4 on and off, interchanged cables, asked "commoners" if there is a difference. Everyone heard it. The speakers back then were a pair of Tannoy Profile 631 and Tannoy DC1000.

Since then I have recommended that cable to people and 4 bought it and had the same experience as me on completely different speakers and amps and rooms and music. And of course different ears.

I made DIY cables with CAT6 solid core conductor braided Kimber style and loved those equally as the Type 4.

So now my general cable philosophy is keep it short, keep it solid core.

If you like cat5 cable, you might be very impressed by using good wire instead.

 

[Bigerik]

I was lent a set of Avanti Audio Allegro speaker cables. After an evening of listening, I can most certainly answer the OP's question. Yes, they sure do make a difference. And it ain't subtle!

Nice cables!

 

[E-Stat]

But I'm not, because I can hear differences in speaker cables in my system, in my home...
Understand that maybe we are not measuring the correct parameters in the right way. To accept the fact that the loudspeaker/cable/amplifier system is very complicated and does not lend itself to simple RLC and response measurement.

Amen, brother. There is nothing "scientific" with using lots of assumptions.

If you really want a good laugh, follow this *test* for interconnects. Scroll down a bit to read the methodology.

Really funny test

BTW, I measured the effects for anyone interested.

 

[bluesky]

I've used Radio Shack cables all my life. The better ones, the thicker copper ones I believe they are. I was quite happy with them really. I didn't really believe in all the cable hype. Cable is basically cable.

Then I found a used, but in 'excellent ' shape, pair of 'very rare' Sansui, 1980, 'special order' only, "High-Efficiency Cable", thick black jacketed with shielding and 'all that stuff', for my vintage speakers. Later on I found out they were designed like professional 'broadcasting' type cable of the period. Cost me $10 plus $25 shipping for 2 each/23 foot long cables from Ireland. Took 5 weeks & 6 days to get. British Royal Mail is beyond slow, international mail anyway. I though they were lost or stolen, I entered into a controlled 'freak-out'...I really did! I really wanted these specific cables!! Then they finally arrived. Total Relief. (Lesson Learned: Never ' Ever ' be in a hurry with Royal International Mail!!!!!!!! )

I hooked them up and it was like an immediate 'WOW'! Substantial difference in sound quality. Easily heard and very noticeable (for the better)...no going back now. I was totally wrong.

** As Steve Hoffman (professional mastering and sound engineer) stated: Use quality vintage cables for vintage stereos because that's the cable the speakers were designed to use. ** I took his advice and it sure worked for me! Perfectly. I was amazed, really, from the moment I connected them and turned the stereo on. Maybe it is 75% mental. haha. Who cares, these new cables sounded GREAT!!!!!!

So I searched "Hi and Low" for another 'same exact' pair, in 6 different countries... d a i l y (USA, Japan, England, Germany, Italy, and Argentina / sometimes Singapore and Taiwan too.). It was like "Mission Impossible"...for 5 years. Then a Brand New NOS/NIB pair 'popped up' on USA eBay (of all places - Never expected THAT to happen - I don't believe that they were ever sold in USA). I just couldn't believe it. I totally freaked, I was shaking!!! I went into the Panic Mode. I bid $375 on them, and held my breath, just to make sure I got them, and got them for $130 plus $25 shipping. (A military veteran bought them new in Japan back in 1980, brought them back to the states, and never used them or even took them out of the box.)

Happiness is having a pair of speaker cables you really LOVE the sound of !! That's an ABSOLUTE.


So I guess quality interconnects would make a big difference in sound too. I CERTAINLY would imagine so. Speaker cables sure do!

Anyway...that's my cable story.

 

[MikeT.]

Bluesky, congrats on your find! Thats a dedicated search if I've ever heard one.

Happy listening.

 

[bluesky]

Thanks...

When I found the first pair on eBay England I just couldn't believe it. And no-one-bid on them but me! Unreal and darn lucky. They went way under the radar, total 'stealth', guess no one knew what they were, or no one saw them. Just don't know. When I got them I was amazed at the sound quality, still am. So the new 'mission': Find one more pair!!! Yeah, like that will ever happen!! haha.

I did find one pair a couple years ago on Yahoo Japan (Japan's eBay of sorts) but they were all mangled up bad.

Then one day, about 6 months ago...'There They Were' on eBay USA of all places, impossible: brand new in the box. For me...like the ultimate find!! Darn near the 'holy grail' in Sansui accessories. A dream come true. "Mission Complete" on speaker cables.

Now all I need to find is the matching 1980 Sansui 'High-Efficiency Cord', thick black jacketed, interconnects. It was another special order item. I only know of one person 'in the world' who has a 'one pair' and he lives in Holland. He posted a photo of them on AK Sansui and that's the ONLY photo I've ever seen of them, besides in a 1980 brochure. The High-Efficiency black ones are the ticket for the Sansui collector. I'll find a pair someday. Only need 1 pair but 3 pair would be nice. 3 pair is the goal. It's the last item I need on this 7+ year journey.

But to tell you the truth: when anyone looks at my Sansui system, all they see is an old stereo! haha. They really don't see anything at all except some old fashioned junk. haha. They just zoom into the TT. "Oh, you have a record player!!???? But that's a 'GOOD thing'! No problems. And no one touches it!! "Oh, those speakers are so big and so old fashioned." I just tell them: "they are ok for me". LOL.


Anyway...get the 'Right Cables' for your stereo system and it makes a BIG difference! It's noticeable. Sometimes very.

'Happiness' is having the 'right cables', for you - and your system, and just not having to think about cables anymore. Done Deal. Forever.

 

[MikeT.]

I've found my favorites in Tara Labs RSC Prime 800. I went a little crazy for 6 months trying just about everything.
I have not even wanted to try anything different for a while now.