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Dual 1228 or 1019?

Neo-Luddite

Freeloader
My dad has a couple Dual turntables. A 1019 and a 1228. I think the 1228 has a Shure cartridge?

Which one should I mess with for my first try at vinyl?

Also...what is United Audio?

Thanks,
Aaron
 
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You can't go wrong with either. Follow your gut instinct. I suggest reading up on these and learning where to lubricate them. A well lubricated Dual rim drive is a wonderful thing.
 
My dad has a couple Dual turntables. A 1019 and a 1228. I think the 1228 has a Shure cartridge?
Which one should I mess with for my first try at vinyl?
Thanks,
Aaron
I just bought my first Dual, a 1019. It is built to last forever and with its massive 7.5 lb plater driven by an idle wheel, it has amazing bass weight and PRAT. The arm, while it looks clunky, will track cartridges to .5 gram. Many authorities claim the 1019 the best Dual ever. That being said I'd like to also have the 1229 and compare. I'd take both the 1019 and 1228 if you could.
 
I had a 1219 and still have a 1019. Admittedly the 1219 had issues when I got it but the 1019 works great and I like the looks more. It's my keeper.
 
I've had both the 1019 and the 1219. They are both excellent tables however I sold the 1219 and likely will hang on to the 1019 for the duration. There is something magical about the 1019 sound.
 
I have two 1019 and a 1229. Although the 1229 is dead quiet (for an idler) and a very cool turntable, both 1019 produce an annoying 100 Hz hum that turned out to be mechanically transmitted from othe motor and that I could never get rid of - and I tried hard :headscrat As a result I constantly use the 1229, and the 1019's lie in the closet until a solution comes up, or until I need the space and sell them both for parts. My conclusion: try them both, after minimal fixing if needed, and keep the one that works best. With those oldies the condition matters at least as much as the model.

BTW both can play 78 rpm. The missing speed on the 1218 is 16 rpm, which shouldn't be a problem.
 
I have two 1019 and a 1229. Although the 1229 is dead quiet (for an idler) and a very cool turntable, both 1019 produce an annoying 100 Hz hum that turned out to be mechanically transmitted from othe motor and that I could never get rid of - and I tried hard :headscrat As a result I constantly use the 1229, and the 1019's lie in the closet until a solution comes up, or until I need the space and sell them both for parts. My conclusion: try them both, after minimal fixing if needed, and keep the one that works best. With those oldies the condition matters at least as much as the model.

BTW both can play 78 rpm. The missing speed on the 1218 is 16 rpm, which shouldn't be a problem.

Strange that both 1019's would show the same hum from the same motor origin. There are little rubber grommets for the motor mount bolts. Are these in good shape?
 
Hi ejman, thanks for asking. If you mean grommets between the chassis and the bolt, apart from the elastic suspension of the motor (which is in good condition on both my motors) there is none on the 1019's I've seen, and there is no such thing in the service manual either. Maybe a mod? But the clearance is very low to add grommets. OTOH I tried adjusting the motors to reduce the noise to a minimum, and all the mounting variants, fitting the nuts just snug, adding thin nylon grommets underneath the nuts, etc. Nothing worked. I was just able to confirm that the noise is not transmitted by the idler wheel, but directly by the bolts to the chassis, to the base of the tonearm and from there to the cartridge.
 
Hi ejman, thanks for asking. If you mean grommets between the chassis and the bolt, apart from the elastic suspension of the motor (which is in good condition on both my motors) there is none on the 1019's I've seen, and there is no such thing in the service manual either. Maybe a mod? But the clearance is very low to add grommets. OTOH I tried adjusting the motors to reduce the noise to a minimum, and all the mounting variants, fitting the nuts just snug, adding thin nylon grommets underneath the nuts, etc. Nothing worked. I was just able to confirm that the noise is not transmitted by the idler wheel, but directly by the bolts to the chassis, to the base of the tonearm and from there to the cartridge.

There are three motor mount bolts (see attached picture). Mine has rubber grommets between the bolt and top plate and grommets between the motor and the bolt. The motor is not firmly attached so I can easily wiggle it from side to side if I grab it from underneath. The motor is totally silent. I can hear a faint whir if I place a stethoscope on the top plate
 

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I don't think that you can go wrong with a 1019. I've had mine since 1968.

The 1019 is simple and easy to care for. Lubricate it once and a while and it will spin your vinyl into your golden years. I bought a spare motor on fleabay a few years ago, but fixed that problem with a good cleaning and a lube.

Good luck with your choice - - -
.
 
There are three motor mount bolts (see attached picture). Mine has rubber grommets between the bolt and top plate and grommets between the motor and the bolt. The motor is not firmly attached so I can easily wiggle it from side to side if I grab it from underneath. The motor is totally silent. I can hear a faint whir if I place a stethoscope on the top plate
Thanks for the photo. Mine are done the same way, I just didn't think the design could be described as grommets since they are integrated in the elastic suspension. Yes, my motors too can wiggle, and they're silent to the ear, with just a faint 100 Hz hum that can be heard by solidian transmission (ie. through a stethoscope). It took some time to solve a faint grinding noise on one motor, the other one has always been this quiet, which is fairly impressive for a machine of this age.

In fact the deck appears mostly silent when you listen to it, it's only when you listen to a record that the hum transmitted to the cartridge appears and can be annoying in the quiet moments. I know my ear is easily disturbed by artefacts, but in a previous thread on the topic I exchanged files with another 1019 owner and it appeared that mine are distinctly noisier than others, although even those have the dread 100 Hz buzz too. Indeed the stethoscope reveals a loudish 100 Hz buzz in some areas of the chassis, in particular around the speed control assembly and the base of the tonearm, whereas other areas are practically silent.

At a point I solved the problem by using an external tonearm, ie. based out of the chassis. That reduced noticeably the hum, but not nearly enough to compete with the 1229 which is also an idler with a heavy platter, high PRAT factor and all. Besides the external tonearm was cumbersome, so I eventually just gave up on the 1019. I came to wonder whether the sound that makes the 1019 so desirable is not precisely due this 100 Hz tone, and when I filtered it out electronically I found the resulting sound very similar to the 1229, but that's just a subjective impression, not evidence. Maybe I just dislike what others like, I don't know. Or maybe I'm just listening to the wrong kind of music for the 1019: I try it with classic and its inevitable quiet passages, whereas variety / pop would not allow the problem to appear? I don't know.
 
Thanks for the photo. Mine are done the same way, I just didn't think the design could be described as grommets since they are integrated in the elastic suspension. Yes, my motors too can wiggle, and they're silent to the ear, with just a faint 100 Hz hum that can be heard by solidian transmission (ie. through a stethoscope). It took some time to solve a faint grinding noise on one motor, the other one has always been this quiet, which is fairly impressive for a machine of this age.

In fact the deck appears mostly silent when you listen to it, it's only when you listen to a record that the hum transmitted to the cartridge appears and can be annoying in the quiet moments. I know my ear is easily disturbed by artefacts, but in a previous thread on the topic I exchanged files with another 1019 owner and it appeared that mine are distinctly noisier than others, although even those have the dread 100 Hz buzz too. Indeed the stethoscope reveals a loudish 100 Hz buzz in some areas of the chassis, in particular around the speed control assembly and the base of the tonearm, whereas other areas are practically silent.

At a point I solved the problem by using an external tonearm, ie. based out of the chassis. That reduced noticeably the hum, but not nearly enough to compete with the 1229 which is also an idler with a heavy platter, high PRAT factor and all. Besides the external tonearm was cumbersome, so I eventually just gave up on the 1019. I came to wonder whether the sound that makes the 1019 so desirable is not precisely due this 100 Hz tone, and when I filtered it out electronically I found the resulting sound very similar to the 1229, but that's just a subjective impression, not evidence. Maybe I just dislike what others like, I don't know. Or maybe I'm just listening to the wrong kind of music for the 1019: I try it with classic and its inevitable quiet passages, whereas variety / pop would not allow the problem to appear? I don't know.

Fascinating! It may very well be that my hearing is not susceptible to a particular frequency that really bugs you and that the 1019 produces just the frequency that bugs you. On a (perhaps) related note a couple of years ago I started to get really annoyed with sibilance and went thru a phase of changing equipment, cables and so fort. I finally came to realize that my hearing was going thru a phase (I'm 62) that particularly enhanced that frequency range. I've come to grips with that problem now.
 
Take both.....

Start with the 1019. Work on that first. It's a very good table and a keeper. A classic. They are easier to work on. Get it fixed up and then take on the 1228.

Good luck.

Eric
 
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