Early Wharfedale W70's - Biggles' dream is realized!

[PastTechFan]

.........I certainly feel it is best to let each driver "do its thang" by a slow 1st order separation of given frequencies......

..... I bet one could tear a page out of the McIntosh bible and crossover at 300 and 2500! The given fs on ALL the drivers could allow that!
DC

Hey dc, thanks for all of the (formerly mysterious) Wharfedale T/S info! I've saved it to my hard drive, along with your crossover suggestions.

I note you've specified polypropylene caps. Many of us wharfie owners swear by paper in oil (with or without the magic PCBs), or later motor-run caps. Have you any thoughts on using those in your circuits?

 

[PastTechFan]

I wish I knew the displacement amount for each of the W90's dual woofer enclosures. They aren't 9 cubic feet, but they each have more than the W60.

I've done a rough calculation at 2 cubic feet per bass enclosure (without subtracting for the volume of the driver itself). I understand that you subtract for crossover bits, and other drivers (if any) in an enclosure, but don't know if you factor in the space taken up by the (very) driver that you're figuring out the cabinet volume for.

 

[dc270]

Hey dc, thanks for all of the (formerly mysterious) Wharfedale T/S info! I've saved it to my hard drive, along with your crossover suggestions.

I note you've specified polypropylene caps. Many of us wharfie owners swear by paper in oil (with or without the magic PCBs), or later motor-run caps. Have you any thoughts on using those in your circuits?

Actually I have used oil caps from a Klipsch Heresy with a W70 3" super tweeter. I do admit it sounded good, very good and did add a nice "flavor" to it sound......how ever I also used a well broke in 3.3 uF 1% Dayton poly cap and liked its sound even better- it's detail was incredible! I would be happy with either cap type-leaning towards the WELL BROKE IN poly cap! It does take time to properly break in the poly caps, do not be diswaded by this-expect it.
DC

 

[dc270]

As for other things taking up volume in your cab- a typical number used is 7~10%. You can get more exact by measuring your magnets volumes and sub enclosures and then only add like 2~3% and come pretty close to net volume- oh don't forget internal bracings and port volume, baffle board as well. You could also add back the driver holes you cut out as gained volume!
DC

 

[drbiggles]

With the iinductor insertion losses on the woofer you should see a much better combination/ integration of the 8" and the 12". Be sure to off set them on the motor board and mirror image them for best results. I bet one could tear a page out of the McIntosch bible and crossover at 300 and 2500! The given fs on ALL the driers could allow that!
DC

I can do that, off set, mirror. Check!

I'm slowly getting a glimpse in regards to frequencies and what carries what. It sounds like these drivers can cover a decent amount of ground and come out very well. It'd be fun to make a handful of crossovers, put them in one at at time, and see which tastes better.

I thought of you last night dc, I stumbled over another pair of Alnico Super 3's, says they're in mint condition. They had a buy it now button for a very decent delivered cost. I'd offer them to you, but I need them for my Trusonic project I'm buttoning up.

Biggles

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I can do that, off set, mirror. Check!

I'm slowly getting a glimpse in regards to frequencies and what carries what. It sounds like these drivers can cover a decent amount of ground and come out very well. It'd be fun to make a handful of crossovers, put them in one at at time, and see which tastes better.

I thought of you last night dc, I stumbled over another pair of Alnico Super 3's, says they're in mint condition. They had a buy it now button for a very decent delivered cost. I'd offer them to you, but I need them for my Trusonic project I'm buttoning up.

Biggles

You bought another pair of alnico Super 3's?

I told all you guys that those are good. That tweeter was designed way back in early 1955, but it's a high-flux work of art. Two of them in a pair creates a silky-smooth leading edge that works perfectly for creating a natural horn-instrument sound. Back in the day, the Super 3 was described as being very-ribbon-like (In other words, very-much like a ribbon tweeter). For classic-rock, psychedelic-rock, classic funk/soul, country, and blues, there is no substitute.

 

[dc270]

I can do that, off set, mirror. Check!

I'm slowly getting a glimpse in regards to frequencies and what carries what. It sounds like these drivers can cover a decent amount of ground and come out very well. It'd be fun to make a handful of crossovers, put them in one at at time, and see which tastes better.

I thought of you last night dc, I stumbled over another pair of Alnico Super 3's, says they're in mint condition. They had a buy it now button for a very decent delivered cost. I'd offer them to you, but I need them for my Trusonic project I'm buttoning up.

Biggles

It's good you are education yourself on audio and all it nuances! If you loka at the differant components between the two 1st order networks you get a subtle idea what goes on with the components! Inductors of given mH block higher freq. caps of given uF block the lower freq. All combine to allow certain freq. to pass- depending on what a driver is able to play through.

Another ideal situation is to use an electronic 3 way network- there you can adjust the freq you want to pass on each driver-but you need 3 amps to make it work! It dials in freq. extremely well.

Thanks for thinking of me on the tweeters. I'll get mine someday, but would like to see your completed even more.

TAke care
DC

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I've done a rough calculation at 2 cubic feet per bass enclosure (without subtracting for the volume of the driver itself). I understand that you subtract for crossover bits, and other drivers (if any) in an enclosure, but don't know if you factor in the space taken up by the (very) driver that you're figuring out the cabinet volume for.

I forgot that the book I have put the original W60 displacement at something like 2.6 cubic feet, with the W2 being like 2.2 or 2.3, give or take. So the W90's individual woofer enclosures must be at least 2.5 or 2.6. Not sure though.

By the way, I hooked up that Tripp Lite UPS that I ordered (It's a high-quality uninterruptible power supply with voltage regulation and true sine wave output). I have it powering my Fisher 800C. Big difference in clarity.

 

[drbiggles]

You bought another pair of alnico Super 3's?

I told all you guys that those are good. That tweeter was designed way back in early 1955, but it's a high-flux work of art. Two of them in a pair creates a silky-smooth leading edge that works perfectly for creating a natural horn-instrument sound. Back in the day, the Super 3 was described as being very-ribbon-like (In other words, very-much like a ribbon tweeter). For classic-rock, psychedelic-rock, classic funk/soul, country, and blues, there is no substitute.

Yes, yes I did. I've been buying them for the last year, when I can find them. I've actually got quite a collection of them now, am trying to put them into everything I can find. Super 12's have ceramics, W70's have Alnico, Trusonics will have Alnico and I have more in the garage.

It's good you are education yourself on audio and all it nuances! If you look at the different components between the two 1st order networks you get a subtle idea what goes on with the components! Inductors of given mH block higher freq. caps of given uF block the lower freq. All combine to allow certain freq. to pass- depending on what a driver is able to play through.

Another ideal situation is to use an electronic 3 way network- there you can adjust the freq you want to pass on each driver-but you need 3 amps to make it work! It dials in freq. extremely well.

Thanks for thinking of me on the tweeters. I'll get mine someday, but would like to see your completed even more.

TAke care
DC

Thanks DC! If I were there, or in front of someone who could actually point to this and point to that and demonstrate what's going on, I'd right in. Reading about it makes it far more difficult for me. If I don't understand something, I can ask right there. If I'm reading, I have to stop and figure it out. What then happens is I see something shiny and my attention fades, then I'm gone.

Biggles

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Trusonics with a Super 3 on top should be an interesting combination. I hadn't realized how big of a role the woofer can play, even a 12" or 15" one. Hanging around this place long enough has actually starting to teach me a few things. I can't wait to hear (about) the results. I always wondered how the Super 3 would do with woofers and mids from a seemingly-west-coast brand like JBL or Stephens (Stephens seemed to me like a fully-realized JBL sound, with maybe some fully-realized EV thrown in there as well... Maybe I was off on that, but it sounded that way to me).

Wow, this UPS/AVR has cleaned up my system's response in a big way. The noise floor is lower, but the clarity itself is a BIG improvement. Gives everything a better sense of being in the room with me. Flattened out the response a bit more too. Wow. It's even affected my computer, which now runs quieter, despite not even being plugged into the UPS. Definitely bumped things up a notch, which is what I was counting on with this thing. I should have bought one of these things 5 years ago. I got it off of Fleabay for $120 (New, they sell between $600 and $1100). Totally-worth it for the results, considering the shoddy electrical in this place (which is why it made such a difference). I needed one if I was going to continue running a hi-fi setup here.