EconoWaveguide Utility Large Advent Build Thread
- Thread starter Bauhausler
- Start date
Yesterday I finally finished "Econowaving" a pair of OLAs that had been gathering dust in my attic for years.
There's no way I would have attempted this without the clear instructions from this build thread! Thank you, Bauhausler, et al!
I am a total beginner at modifying speakers. I'm sure there are lots of things I could have done better on this project. But for my first effort, I'm pleased with the results.
With a little more woodworking effort, I could have made the waveguide closer to the woofer -- from what I'm reading, the experts seem to be saying this produces a better sound. I suppose even now I could still modify the baffle with more jigsawing (and then wood-patching), to move the waveguides south.
Appropriately enough, as I worked on these Advents, my trusty Henry Koss-designed Tivoli One on a shelf over my workbench kept me entertained with music and news.
Next step is to listen to them for a while. My main system for the past 25 years has used OLAs and their variants. Right now it's a pair of the 25th Anniversary Advents, and I like that sound very much. So far, they sound very nice to my ears.
Cheers!
There's no way I would have attempted this without the clear instructions from this build thread! Thank you, Bauhausler, et al!
I am a total beginner at modifying speakers. I'm sure there are lots of things I could have done better on this project. But for my first effort, I'm pleased with the results.
With a little more woodworking effort, I could have made the waveguide closer to the woofer -- from what I'm reading, the experts seem to be saying this produces a better sound. I suppose even now I could still modify the baffle with more jigsawing (and then wood-patching), to move the waveguides south.
Appropriately enough, as I worked on these Advents, my trusty Henry Koss-designed Tivoli One on a shelf over my workbench kept me entertained with music and news.
Next step is to listen to them for a while. My main system for the past 25 years has used OLAs and their variants. Right now it's a pair of the 25th Anniversary Advents, and I like that sound very much. So far, they sound very nice to my ears.
Cheers!
Attachments
For utility cabinets those seem to be in almost unbelievably good shape. For a first effort I think you did an excellent job, much better than my first effort at all most everything. I would be very interested in your opinions after you listen to them for a while. Have you tried PeteB's BSC with any of your Advents?
Guido57: I’m such a dolt I do not even know what you mean by “PeteB's BSC.”
would you please enlighten me?
Sweet, they look great! What did you wind up using for the compression driver? 4 1/2 years later I still have mine out in the garage and love listening to them. I'll probably have these forever.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...p-compensation-bsc-build-instructions.647441/
BSC: Baffle Step Compensation. This has to do with how lower wavelengths are affected by the width of the baffle, sometimes called, I believe, a motor board, in relation to other wavelengths. Baffle is the mounting board for the drivers. In the opinions of many who have tried it the improvement is significant. For example in my experience Bob Dylan's voice is much less nasal, at least on the more modern recordings and quite noticeable on "Blood On The Tracks".
I'm also curious as to the compression driver.
BSC: Baffle Step Compensation. This has to do with how lower wavelengths are affected by the width of the baffle, sometimes called, I believe, a motor board, in relation to other wavelengths. Baffle is the mounting board for the drivers. In the opinions of many who have tried it the improvement is significant. For example in my experience Bob Dylan's voice is much less nasal, at least on the more modern recordings and quite noticeable on "Blood On The Tracks".
I'm also curious as to the compression driver.
Ah, yes...I have heard of this some time ago. Thanks! It's light years beyond my current hobby level, but give me time! It looks intriguing!
Thanks again, Guido57.
Andyman, as a total novice/caveman, I went the conservative route and just followed the instructions on this build thread. I used Selenium D220Ti from Parts Express.
https://www.parts-express.com/selenium-d220ti-1-titanium-horn-driver-8-ohm-1-3-8-18--264-270
I've read some experts recommend higher-end compression drivers for this Ewave conversion, and report the results are noticeably superior to the D220Ti.
I've been listening to these all afternoon, and my ears have been smiling. One of my favorite speaker test albums is Rickie Lee Jones debut, and my initial reaction is that these Econowaves handle her vocals in a way that is even more pleasing than my 25th Anniversary Advents, but I need a longer audition to be sure about that.
Maybe I'll do another version with Baffle Step Compensation and higher-end compression drivers. If my hobby budget could afford it. It would be fun to upgrade to real walnut veneer cabinets.
Meanwhile, I am most definitely having fun with these.
As far as the BSC is concerned, my first one was butt ugly but it worked. While you can build a BSC into a passive crossover for a speaker I think Pete's approach is more elegant as the line level approach means the speaker is unmodified and the BSC easily removed or modified. Parts are cheaper too. In conversations I've had with Pete his basic version of the BSC may be appropriate for many speakers similar in size to the Large Advent, though the most appropriate dB level of compensation can vary with the particular speaker.
As far as using a higher end compression driver for the Econo-wave I wonder if tweaks to the high pass circuit might be needed to really optimize it to get the most out of the different driver.
As far as using a higher end compression driver for the Econo-wave I wonder if tweaks to the high pass circuit might be needed to really optimize it to get the most out of the different driver.
Well, 4 1/2 years later I'm still enjoying th heck out of mine in the garage. Not much critical listening done out there, but I do enjoy the snot out of them, FWIW...
Guido57: I've been listening to these for a few months now, and can say my ears are very pleased with the sound. I'd have no problems making these the only speakers I ever listen to.
But I do like rotating gear, to keep my ears fresh, so right now I'm really enjoying a refurbished pair of Heathkit AS-1373s where the Econowave'd Advents were until recently. But I definitely have no thoughts about getting rid of the E-waved Advents.
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That's really nice how the OLA cabinet with the grille spaced forward allows the
waveguide to be surface mounted - I have to remember this for next time.
I chose the NLA cabinet in order to have the woofer up closer to the waveguide
and planned to flush mount the waveguide so that the grille could be used. I never
got around to it, but I have been investigating how to do it.
Edit: Looking at the OLA pictures, it seems that the guide could be mounted closer to
the woofer, say right up against the blocks to take about an inch off of the CTC.
I might try that if I do another pair. I'd also shim the guide forward until it nearly
touches the grille frame to minimize diffraction. 1/16" gap should prevent rattle
of the frame against the guide.
waveguide to be surface mounted - I have to remember this for next time.
I chose the NLA cabinet in order to have the woofer up closer to the waveguide
and planned to flush mount the waveguide so that the grille could be used. I never
got around to it, but I have been investigating how to do it.
Edit: Looking at the OLA pictures, it seems that the guide could be mounted closer to
the woofer, say right up against the blocks to take about an inch off of the CTC.
I might try that if I do another pair. I'd also shim the guide forward until it nearly
touches the grille frame to minimize diffraction. 1/16" gap should prevent rattle
of the frame against the guide.
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I'll offer a tip on opening up the baffle if you have ones with good cloth.
Slide a piece of 1/8" plywood or masonite between the hardwood and
the cloth through the woofer cutout, then use a cutoff wheel on a dremel
to open the hole with the wood as a shield for the cloth. I've done it
several times and it worked well.
Slide a piece of 1/8" plywood or masonite between the hardwood and
the cloth through the woofer cutout, then use a cutoff wheel on a dremel
to open the hole with the wood as a shield for the cloth. I've done it
several times and it worked well.
The Fuxtor
Addicted Member
Looks great.
poorbastards
Active Member
I'm glad to have been recommended econowave and excited to have found this thread! I have some NLA that I would love to do this to.
I use to run stacked advent/1s and while the sound was big, the highs never really impressed me.
I solely run tube gear so I've been desperate to have some horn speakers. I had a pair of klipsch kg4.2 and the horns were great, the low end was disappointing. I love the low end with nearly every advent speaker I've owned.
Once I can get ahold of the guy who sells the crossovers I'll order the rest of the parts. Might have more questions later.
Thanks for the thread OP. 13 years later and you are still sparking curiosity!
I use to run stacked advent/1s and while the sound was big, the highs never really impressed me.
I solely run tube gear so I've been desperate to have some horn speakers. I had a pair of klipsch kg4.2 and the horns were great, the low end was disappointing. I love the low end with nearly every advent speaker I've owned.
Once I can get ahold of the guy who sells the crossovers I'll order the rest of the parts. Might have more questions later.
Thanks for the thread OP. 13 years later and you are still sparking curiosity!
I had a pair of Klipsch KG 4.5, same drivers and crossover, different cabinet and port instead of a passive. What I found is the Klipsch absolutely needed an amp with a high damping factor to sound good in the low end. I thought that while they could reach higher in comparison to a pair of NLAs, the NLAs presented better detail in the frequencies they could reach than the Klipsch. With the E-wave you will have what I think is a more sophisticated crossover and a better compression driver than the Klipsch, even if the Klipsch were upgraded with Crites diaphragms. That being said, the E-wave crossover is simple enough to build on a piece of Masonite, though for most people a circuit board is easier and neater. Not to say there aren't people out there who can't make beautiful crossovers on Masonite, it just takes more skill.
poorbastards
Active Member
I will probably get the boards stretchy for a clean look like you mentioned. I'm very excited to start this, it really seems like the best of both worlds.
My brother in law has a pair of the smaller advents with fried egg tweeters and the smaller woofer with the giant dustcap. I keep wondering if those would make great e-waves.
I also had a pair of kg4s for only a day or two which had the crites. I really didn't see what all the fuss was about. Very underwhelming speaker