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Ess 12" woofers refoam done by Pro.......Not happy!

The time and labor outlay the guy used to rig the wrong surrounds is difficult to see the logic in. A very poor decision on his part and
he should be ashamed to call himself a professional-

Then not to have the balls to be"in" when you came to pick them up says he knew he was ripping you off but not man enough to look you in the eye....

Did he explain why he didn't order the correct material from the onset ?
Did he explain how he could justify doubling the fee when he choose to use the incorrect surround thus increasing the labor?
 
I'm pretty sure if the guy was building speakers from scratch there's no way he'd put cut foam in those speakers...especially if he wanted to sell them to others. I wouldn't buy showroom speakers with split foam and I'm guessing many others would pass on that option too. But even if this was his only alternative (which it wasn't) the right thing to do would have been to pick up the phone and check with you before the work is done. That's how, as a business man, you prevent a scenario like this.

I'm sure what you thought you were paying for was a complete set of new foam as a whole piece. What you received was augmented foam. Not the same thing. A terrible choice by the professional who is performing the work (and charging top dollar) when the correct alternative is available.

A pretty sad way to repair a speaker. But an even sadder way to treat a customer and run a business.
 
StimpyWan said:
Well, I'm sorry that this happened, and I know that you have the right to be upset; but, I have to admit, I'm truly curious if you've tried the 'repaired' drivers or not? They're bought and paid for, so why not? While the work ethic involved wasn't top-notch, the woofers will hopefully still perform as intended. So, give it a shot! There's nothing to loose, at this point!
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Il am going to reinstall the speakers next week and hear how they sound. I am sure they will be ok.
 
ProBlogger said:
I'm pretty sure if the guy was building speakers from scratch there's no way he'd put cut foam in those speakers...especially if he wanted to sell them to others. I wouldn't buy showroom speakers with split foam and I'm guessing many others would pass on that option too. But even if this was his only alternative (which it wasn't) the right thing to do would have been to pick up the phone and check with you before the work is done. That's how, as a business man, you prevent a scenario like this.

I'm sure what you thought you were paying for was a complete set of new foam as a whole piece. What you received was augmented foam. Not the same thing. A terrible choice by the professional who is performing the work (and charging top dollar) when the correct alternative is available.

A pretty sad way to repair a speaker. But an even sadder way to treat a customer and run a business.
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I am going to let the cat out of the bag and tell you who did the work. VanL Speakerworks is who did the work and the first thing I said to him is you wouldn't use modified incorrect foams in your own house brand speakers why would you think it was OK in mine? I think as highly of my own speakers as you do in yours. What I have learned in this is if you are a known very good speaker builder and designer it really doesn't mean squat if you don't care about the quality of your repair work and the satisfaction of your customers. Not to mention him scamming me on the price which differs from what it states on him website. Bottom line for John L and from my experience with him is he doesn't care anymore about doing the work right. He should get out of the repair business and stick to build speakers.He can take his reputation and put it where the sun don't shine!
 
For the record VanL speakerworks in Norridge IL did the work on my speakers just in case some where wondering. Thank you all for the great advice. I have been on this earth 54 years old and I am still learning something new everyday!
 
SecondSpin said:
Wow. Sorry to hear your misfortune. Who in their right mind would pay over $400 to get four 12"'s refoamed (not too many people I know)?

They are nice speakers, but that's all they are. What are they made of gold?

And he should have gotten in touch with you before doing questionable work, but of course that's what shady businesses do. Then expect you not to notice, or just start knocking off from the amount owing (which they jacked you on).

Just let everyone know your experience. You'ver gotten burned and have every right to.
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I bought a pair of ESS Rock monitors for $125.00 and that was with a fresh refoam of all the drivers and a 90 day warranty! You win some you lose some.
 
drumbum said:
Actually quite common for odd sized drivers.
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Actually this is true. I just refoamed my Mach 3 woofers today with surrounds from S.S. They were a tad to big and the instructions with said that cutting them down was necessary. I was going to send them back but wanted a second opinion, so I called Springfield Speaker and the guy confirmed it. He said the cone on the Mach 3s was slightly smaller than the 1s and 2s and they couldn't get actual Mach 3 foams. He said everyone gets their foams from the same place...a company named NWA. This doesn't excuse the price gouging but explains the splice. Contrary to popular belief, they don't make surrounds for every speaker ever made.
( I hope I didn't use initials in my post that would labele as a subversive .:biggrin:
 
drumbum said:
Actually quite common for odd sized drivers.
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Considering the easy availability of the correct sized surrounds and the $400+ cost, this wasn't one of those situations. I'm also skeptical this is common in any circumstance. Foams have a variance to accommodate odd sizing and I've yet to see this done.
 
I've done the splice thing.. What happens is you get a driver that is odd sized and needs a surround with a certain form and compliance. The originals are no longer available but a company is still making surrounds that are close in size with the same form and compliance, Since the replacement is larger, a seam must be made in the surround. After repair, the woofer exhibits the same reproduction as if it was new. In this case the wounded woofer was a Kenwood and the surround was a JBL.
 
Jon at VanL has been doing this stuff for 30+ years.

If he spliced it, my guess is there was a good reason. Unfortunately he doesn't participate on internet forums, so we don't get to hear his side of the story.
 
kirk57 said:
Jon at VanL has been doing this stuff for 30+ years.

If he spliced it, my guess is there was a good reason. Unfortunately he doesn't participate on internet forums, so we don't get to hear his side of the story.
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He spliced it because he didn't bother to get the CORRECT surround! Then he charged me the extra cost in labor to modify the incorrect surround when he could have just used the exact factory replacement surround which is still available and cheap! Jon has been doing it too long! He doesn't care anymore. You can be great at something but if your heart is no longer in it I think its time to retire as in VanL's case.
 
westend said:
I've done the splice thing.. What happens is you get a driver that is odd sized and needs a surround with a certain form and compliance. The originals are no longer available but a company is still making surrounds that are close in size with the same form and compliance, Since the replacement is larger, a seam must be made in the surround. After repair, the woofer exhibits the same reproduction as if it was new. In this case the wounded woofer was a Kenwood and the surround was a JBL.
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The ORIGINAL surrounds for my speakers are still available yet he chose to use whatever he had lying around in his shop for my speakers! On top of that he charged me extra on the labor since he had to modify the incorrect surrounds. Also, after looking at the work of others John from VanL was sloppy with the glue on a couple drivers. Being he is the expert and had said he gets most of his business from botched refoam jobs by DIY's I would like to think the speakers would look like new meaning no glue would be seen!
 
tubeampking said:
Actually this is true. I just refoamed my Mach 3 woofers today with surrounds from S.S. They were a tad to big and the instructions with said that cutting them down was necessary. I was going to send them back but wanted a second opinion, so I called Springfield Speaker and the guy confirmed it. He said the cone on the Mach 3s was slightly smaller than the 1s and 2s and they couldn't get actual Mach 3 foams. He said everyone gets their foams from the same place...a company named NWA. This doesn't excuse the price gouging but explains the splice. Contrary to popular belief, they don't make surrounds for every speaker ever made.
( I hope I didn't use initials in my post that would labele as a subversive .:biggrin:
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Factory correct surrounds are still available for my speakers! ESS still uses and sells the exact speakers I just had refoamed!
 
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mfell said:
Factory correct surrounds are still available for my speakers! ESS still uses and sells the exact speakers I just has refoamed!
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If that's the case then you have a just case. I would print out evidence of this and use it as leverage to get either a refund or have the correct surrounds from installed along with a significant partial refund. Others then that your only recourse is to file a complaint with the BBB.
 
tubeampking said:
If that's the case then you have a just case. I would print out evidence of this and use it as leverage to get either a refund or have the correct surrounds from installed along with a significant partial refund. Others then that your only recourse is to file a complaint with the BBB.
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Thank you for the great advice! The BBB sounds like a great idea! I am going to install the woofers today. I hope I don't get any voice coil rub since he told me he doesn't use shims to center the Voice coil.. The lack of quality of work done I am concerned. He says his way is the better way than shims.
 
kirk57 said:
Jon at VanL has been doing this stuff for 30+ years.

If he spliced it, my guess is there was a good reason. Unfortunately he doesn't participate on internet forums, so we don't get to hear his side of the story.
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John left a message on my answering machine explaining why he had to charge me more for modifying\splicing the foams on my speakers! Ill post it later on You tube with a link. Why he didn't use the ESS factory correct surrounds on my speakers just boggles my mind! He would never do his own speakers like he did mine as I pointed out to him.
 
mfell said:
Thank you for the great advice! The BBB sounds like a great idea! I am going to install the woofers today. I hope I don't get any voice coil rub since he told me he doesn't use shims to center the Voice coil.. The lack of quality of work done I am concerned. He says his way is the better way than shims.
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I don't use shims and my success rate is 100%.
 
tubeampking said:
I don't use shims and my success rate is 100%.
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moebuster said:
The time and labor outlay the guy used to rig the wrong surrounds is difficult to see the logic in. A very poor decision on his part and
he should be ashamed to call himself a professional-

Then not to have the balls to be"in" when you came to pick them up says he knew he was ripping you off but not man enough to look you in the eye....

Did he explain why he didn't order the correct material from the onset ?
Did he explain how he could justify doubling the fee when he choose to use the incorrect surround thus increasing the labor?
Click to expand...

He doesn't care about doing quality work IMHO in my experience with him which is only one time and that will be the last time. He had no explanation. He acted like the factory surrounds didn't exist!
 
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