• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Fathom F112's in my system

Status
Not open for further replies.

PHC1

Addicted Member
Banned
Finally received the F112's this afternoon. :banana: Since I ordered a pair of F112' and a Bryston 10B-Sub balanced active crossover and there are 3 components involved, I wanted to break this review into 3 parts. This way I could track the changes from single F112 to a stereo pair of F112's and finally integrating the 10B x-over. I will take notes and share the results so anyone interested in adding a sub/subs/x-over into their own system may find this helpful.

Part I. Singe F112.

After taking the well packed, double boxed F112 out of the boxes I proceeded to place the sub in the right corner of my room. Not much wiggle room in that corner but just enough to do some fine tuning with positioning as it turned out later.

The F112 features a single 12" long excursion driver in a sealed cabinet and 1500w built-in amp. I chose the gloss black finish. Elegant looking sub for sure. :thmbsp: I feel the F112 is appropriate for my current 14x17 room. The F113 may have been just a touch too big dimensions wise as I have little room room to wiggle them between the wall unit and the corners of the room.

Fathom_MI.jpg





I've been preparing for their arrival by ordering a 30ft pair of balanced cables from BlueJeans. They use the extra low capacitance, braided and shielded Belden 1800F cable. Since I needed a 30ft pair, the price was right and there was no reason to buy anything more expensive in my mind for subwoofer use that will see 80Hz and lower at best. (Not at this point).

Since I needed the XLR outs of MDA for the subs before I can go back to them with the 10B, I've been listening to my system with RCA cables driving the 501s from the MDA to get used to the sound. Yes, there is a bit of a difference. The RCA cables make the system sound a bit "forward" with the soundstage a little closer than what I've been used to with the XLRs. There is also a little more energy up top as compared to the XLRs. The JL Audio folks recommend the balanced inputs for their subs and with 30ft lengths it was a necessity to go XLR anyway. The 10B will have balanced in and outs so I will be able to go back to XLRs for both the amps and subs.

Digging out my SPL meter and Stereophile test CD 3, I took base measurements from 200Hz to 20Hz with just my Guarneri for reference. The Guarneri are essentially flat from 200Hz to about 40Hz save for a few +/-2dB peaks and dips along the way. The bass falls off sharply below 40Hz. This is by far the flattest response I have measured with any of the previous speakers in my system. :thmbsp:

Hooking up the F112 with both L and R XLRs straight out of MDA and setting it up as "master" as well as plugging it in is all it takes before the tweaking begins. The sub will sum the L+R channel in this configuration. Those with "sub out" in their pre/pro can just use the L/mono channel.

I decided to fine tune the sub with the SPL meter and get it to blend in as close as possible with the speakers before actually listening to music and fine tuning it by ear. I am not a bass freak by any means, I hate boomy, bloated or over-emphasized bass. I need natural bass that blends in smoothly and can be appreciated only in the context of recording and in such a way that no one would ever be able to tell there is a sub in a blind listening test. This is what I am used to and this is what I set out to achieve. The REL subs are very musical subs and I am familiar with them so the JL Audio Fathom F112 had its work cut out for it. :yes:

The F112 offers ample controls to achieve the desired result. :yes: Not to bore anyone with unnecessary details (one can download the manual and take a look at the controls as well as all the patents the JL Audio holds on their website, wow. http://home.jlaudio.com/products_subs_pages.php?page_id=33)

After fine tuning it with the SPL meter I arrived at the settings that gave me the smoothest response, crossed over at 37Hz, polarity at 180, phase at 45deg, elf trim at -8, master level set at approx 10 o'clock, essentially flat response from 200Hz to 20Hz, +/- 1dB from 80Hz to 20Hz. Some positioning changes in the corner was necessary to achieve this. This will be fun!!! :music: I also ran the auto-calibration sequence which was fun and made the room and my teeth rattle with the included mike. :yikes: The sub will self calibrate from 200Hz down to 20Hz and eliminate the highest peaks in the room response. I didn't notice a difference because it if did smooth out something along the way, I am only using the 37Hz x-over at this point with 12dB Low Pass filter slope.

Now to the important stuff. How does it sound? After a few hours of listening and tweaking the settings and positioning some more, basically arriving at the initial settings as the flat SPL response sounded the best to me in the end anyways.

I can say this, this sub has met and exceeded my expectations. :yes: It goes without saying that the single sub has added tremendous sense of weight and scale. Smooth, extended bass response down to 20Hz, maybe lower but I don't have any source material that offers any signals lower than 20Hz. I've spent some time listening to systems with well integrated subs but I have never realized that the spacious, three-dimensional soundstage is what the sub brings to the table. :yes:

I've always just assumed that the sub will add bass and enhance the bottom octave and the rest is due to speakers and their positioning/integration into the room. Well, this sub just added another dimension to my listening experience! The soundstage immediately opened up and deepened by a significant margin. Surprisingly this is noticeable all across the frequency spectrum, not just the bass. Bill from Sumiko has mentioned this effect to me, the pressurization of the room and recreation of the ambiance is what a good sub will bring. It's one thing to listen to someone describe it and another to witness this in your own system. I am very impressed with the results. :thmbsp:

If anyone is rolling their eyes and saying, "oh, yeah, sure, another boom-boom bass lover" right about now. Trust me, there is none of that. I've never liked it, I've never had it in my system. The bass does not jump out at you. It doesn't rattle my room or floor unless there is over abundance of bass on the recording (my son will be happy when he listens to his trance/techno stuff on my system.:D ) My music sounds smooth and natural, there is no artificial bloat, no over-hang and no ripeness to any recording or instruments within them that I have listened to so far. I've tried various rock, jazz, blues and some classical recordings so far. I strongly prefer the smaller driver/sealed subs (REL being an exception) for their fast, tight, crisp and articulate bass response. This sub does not disappoint. It's not about the quantity, it's about quality!

I'd say that in my system the enhanced soundstage takes the award followed closely by the new found level of weight and scale, especially on recordings that benefit from it the most such as a few classical pieces I have come across so far. On recordings that have hard left or right bass instruments and drums, the instruments are defined with a holographic presentation and take on body and three-dimensionality unlike I have experienced before in my system with any of the speakers before these. Not that I've ever been able to achieve a smooth response like this with full range speakers in my room. Just not possible in my 14x17 room. This sub does it with ease. There is something to say about the realism of a complete drum set sitting well outside the boundaries of the speakers with proportional, realistic size and convincing, holographic presence. Close your eyes and you are there!

I'd say the F112 is very close if not the same performance that I have experienced from upper line REL subs. Of course this sub is half the price of an REL so I got a pair of them to see what that brings to the table, as well as the Bryston 10B to relieve the 501s and the speakers from some mid/low bass, essentially bi-amping in my system which does not allow to be bi-amped. (one pair of speaker binding posts only).

Stay tuned for part II. Stereo pair of Fathom F112's. :banana:
 
Register to hide this ad
Thanks for the great review! You definitely have me intrigued and I do have a birthday coming up!
 
Thanks for the great review! You definitely have me intrigued and I do have a birthday coming up!
I suggest the Yamamoto Trio Midnight Sugar CD to listen to first once you get your Fathom dialed in. The harmonic bloom of the bass and the definition of the strings will blow you away with the sub in the system. Not to mention one of the best piano recordings out there. :music:

61hscnpDWSL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
 
Why did you choose the F112s?
The F113s are an overkill for my room. The F112s are are -1dB at 19Hz vs
-10dB for the F110s. If I was going to buy a sub it was going to go down to 20Hz no problem, otherwise there is little point. The F112 also has 1500w vs 900w and weighs twice as much as the F110. If my room was bigger, I would have went for the F113's but as it stands I think I made the right choice, the F112s are perfect. :yes:
 
Congratulations Serge,

Great and instructive review.

Getting subs to do your bidding and play nice with a room is always a challenge, but you seem to have done.

Frankly, I am starting to wonder if I'll ever own full-range speakers again. The monitors + set-up makes so much sense to me.

BTW, I also use the Stereophile CD the same way you do. I have done it enough that I think I developed perfect pitch from 200 and lower :-).

Looking forward to part 2.

Alberto
 
Congratulations Serge,

Great and instructive review.

Getting subs to do your bidding and play nice with a room is always a challenge, but you seem to have done.

Frankly, I am starting to wonder if I'll ever own full-range speakers again. The monitors + set-up makes so much sense to me.

BTW, I also use the Stereophile CD the same way you do. I have done it enough that I think I developed perfect pitch from 200 and lower :-).

Looking forward to part 2.

Alberto

I love the monitors for their imaging and in the case of SF their sweet romantic voice. I've had some speakers that would qualify as full range but in this room it was far from perfect. It is always a compromise between where they image and sound the best and the bass/room interaction. This setup with the sub is just perfect. Once you have control and adjustment over that finicky 200-20Hz range it is so much easier. I've lived with monitors for quite some time now and have gotten used to missing the bottom octave and while it is nice to have it now, the holographic soundstage is what is really exciting. Amazing stuff this audio hobby is. :yes:
 
Serge nice review. You 've made a great choice with the f112. As you know I have the f113 and have never regreted it. Two of those f112 must have the walls cracking. :thmbsp:
 
Serge nice review. You 've made a great choice with the f112. As you know I have the f113 and have never regreted it. Two of those f112 must have the walls cracking. :thmbsp:

So far I love them John. :yes: No wall cracking the way I have them set up but the 1812 overture cannons did have some major impact. :D
 
Congratulations, Serge. Very nice addition.

I remember many years ago going to a concert at Wolf Trap with the National Symphony Orchestra doing the 1812 Overture with real live cannons. I had to go home and put on the Telarc CD to demonstrate to our friends what it should have sounded like, courtesy of my then new Velodyne FSR-18 (now retired for my DD-18).

Obviously, I'm using a little dramatic license, but it did sound good at home, too.
 
Serge,

This makes want to tweak the settings on my REL B1 more. Sometimes it sounds perfect, and then other times it sounds overdone for me. Adjusting it perfectly must be an art and I am not an artist!

It seems that some music is unnaturally bass heavy and it comes across as boomy...

I will try to bribe the guy from Sumiko to come by again and have him adjust it some more.

Thanks for discussing the integration of subs. It is a challenging solution for me!

Michael
 
Serge,

This makes want to tweak the settings on my REL B1 more. Sometimes it sounds perfect, and then other times it sounds overdone for me. Adjusting it perfectly must be an art and I am not an artist!

It seems that some music is unnaturally bass heavy and it comes across as boomy...

I will try to bribe the guy from Sumiko to come by again and have him adjust it some more.

Thanks for discussing the integration of subs. It is a challenging solution for me!

Michael
Michael, Sumiko guys may have the experience and expertise that would border on art, I am far from it. In my case it was rather easy as both of the Sonus Fabers I've had so far signed off cleanly on bass and it was easy to run them full range and augment them with the F112's. Blending in the sub to full range speakers is much more work but doable when you have tons of adjustments to play with. I will have my real work cut out for me when I try to integrate the active crossover into the system and try to take some bass off the monitors. :yes:
 
Nice review! Very timely for my selfish me as well, as I'm expecting a REL Storm III to go with my B&W 804s and MC275, and I have been thinking about a crossover too. Will be looking forward to your part III with the 10B in the mix.

BTW, why did you decide to include a crossover, and why the 10B?

Enjoy!
Horacio
 
Part II. Stereo pair of F112's.

Finally had a chance to set up the second F112.

After having to unpack the sub for the second time, I really appreciated the way these 115lbs subs are logically packed and flipping the box upside down and removing it by pulling it up, you wind up with the sub right side up and ready to be "walked" into position. :thmbsp:


Having played around with the first F112, I more or less knew what to expect and got straight to business. With all the settings set to let ARO (automatic room calibration) process complete itself, I decided to just duplicate the settings on this left F112 from the right F112 and see what happens. Turning off the right sub and measuring the response of the left sub with the SPL meter showed that it was way off. Just goes to show you how bass varies in different locations of the room let alone different rooms. The R sub loads the room much more than the L sub (left side of the room opens up into the hallway). After adjusting the gain to get a flat response from 200Hz to 20Hz like I did with the R sub, I turned them both on and re-checked the response, still flat. So far so good.

Music test. Running through some of my CDs I used to set up the first sub, I can honestly say I was less than impressed with results. The bass sounded thick and slow. There was some overhang/lingering and bloated bass notes that did not sound natural. Hmm... Obviously the second sub complicates things quite a bit.

Time to rethink the process. :scratch2: Having checked with the SPL and playing around with the gain and ELF trim proved that both subs were not overloading the room and the 40Hz to 20Hz was in line with the rest of the frequency spectrum, I decided to break out the tape measure. The subs turned out to be a few inches off from the listening position. Adjusting the sub positioning slightly and making them even produced a much improved response. Now we're getting somewhere. :banana:

At this point it made sense, the bass notes that were center-stage and arriving equally from both subs were off in phase slightly, making the bass sound slow and thick while recordings with hard left or hard right bass notes sounded better. Adjusting the phase a few degrees at a time on the L sub did the trick and suddenly the bass locked in solid with a crisp, natural sound. The strings on bass instruments developed their natural bloom, speed and coherence. Excellent! :thmbsp: At this point I was very satisfied but man, this second sub really complicated things quite a bit. It seems every tweak or slight movement of one affects the overall sound with both in the system, at least in my room.:sigh:

Some serious listening. Are two stereo subs better than one?

After listening for a few hours with subs all adjusted, I can say that YES, there is a bit of an advantage but not as drastic as I would have guessed. At least not with the subs crossed over at 35Hz. When it comes time to cross over the speakers at around 60-80Hz, it may be a completely different story as the very low bass notes are not directional to our ears but 60Hz and up may be pushing it with only one sub and it may prove a necessity to run them both carefully adjusted to match each other and blended in smoothly with the speakers.

From my listening sessions so far I'd say the second sub added another degree of solidity across the sound stage and helps develop the bass even further. The bass harmonics are now spectacular but if one doesn't take care of fine tuning the stereo pair of subs it will actually sound worse than one sub! Bass notes arriving slightly out of phase will muck things up or so was the case in my room with near-field listening set up. (My speakers are wider in the room than my listening position to the center line between them. ) Of course once things are dialed in, wow, simply amazing. :yes: I still can't get over how great these JL Audio subs sound. :music:

From my experience so far, I'd strongly recommend either the F112 or F113 to anyone wanting to augment their speakers and extend the frequency down to 20Hz solid. :thmbsp: Never mind the full, tight, articulate bass, you will not believe what it does to the sound stage! A second sub is an option if you are willing to play around and carefully tweak it, otherwise just go with one. Of course I suspect that two subs will be much better or may be even a necessity when one tries to cross things over a bit higher than 30-40Hz. :scratch2:

The second sub installation also gave me the opportunity to switch to the reasonably priced but impressive quality Zebra power cords with the gold plated Furutech terminations. I don't know if they made a difference over the stock power cords and I am not even going to try to determine that, I doubt I will be able to hear the difference at 35Hz only. :D But I did need a 20Ft length for the L sub so I upgrade the cords on both.


Stay tuned for Part III. Active crossover in the system. As soon as I get the Bryston 10B.
 
Part II. Stereo pair of F112's.

Are two stereo subs better than one?

After listening for a few hours with subs all adjusted, I can say that YES, there is a bit of an advantage but not as drastic as I would have guessed. At least not with the subs crossed over at 35Hz. When it comes time to cross over the speakers at around 60-80Hz, it may be a completely different story as the very low bass notes are not directional to our ears but 60Hz and up may be pushing it with only one sub and it may prove a necessity to run them both carefully adjusted to match each other and blended in smoothly with the speakers.


I look forward to your accessment 60-80Hz. I previously went through the same exercise and could not hear any real difference between 1 or 2 PS112s at 80Hz. McIntosh designed the LS speaker line for optimum x/o at 80Hz so that may or may not have made a difference. Also, I do not run the LS320s full range. Consequently, they produce no sound below 80Hz which may or may not avoid any blending or image problems that could result from using just one sub.

When using only one sub, one thing that strikes me is how the bass seems to flow evently come from any position in the room, I guess confirming the theory that frequencies below 100Hz are non-directional and can not be located. I have also found that when using one sub, the bass is smoothest when the sub is located away from the corner of the room (at least in my situation) confirming McIntosh's recommendation for the PS112. I also found that setting the phase switch to 0 vs. 180 maintains correct 'center imaging'.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom