Fluance vs. AT Turntable (New Kid on The Block, vs. The Corner Kid)

hotrodman21 said:
Got it, I'll grab that, and adjust as soon as I get home. Gimmie just a few hours.

Should I align the cart to be parallel to the side walls of the "little red light?" I feel while the lateral tracking distance would be corrected, as long as the stylus falls into that groove, the horizontal tracking may be off. Maybe I'm overanalyzing...
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If you're aligning to that, I believe it should be square in the headshell (assuming your cantilever is not askew). Do still check to see that the cartridge / headshell isn't rotated.
 
tw1st said:
If you're aligning to that, I believe it should be square in the headshell (assuming your cantilever is not askew). Do still check to see that the cartridge / headshell isn't rotated.
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Fantastic time for my power to cut.

Since I got home last night, I've been without power. Still aligned it to the "little red light" and have it straight in its headshell, but alas, I cannot test with no power. I got the gas generator powering the fridge, and a heater, but I don't believe it can power my turntable, and receiver.

Updates in 24 hours y'all! Can't wait!
 
hotrodman21 said:
Fantastic time for my power to cut.

Since I got home last night, I've been without power. Still aligned it to the "little red light" and have it straight in its headshell, but alas, I cannot test with no power. I got the gas generator powering the fridge, and a heater, but I don't believe it can power my turntable, and receiver.

Updates in 24 hours y'all! Can't wait!
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Okay, Power is back.

After this previous adjustment, there appears to actually be a worsening in the sound quality, it appears we have taken a step back.

This being said, now that the overhang is correct, I will take it to the protractor, and try it out.


That being said... THE ANTI-SKATE DOES WORK!!! After putting the arm into "float" I gave it a twist, and sure enough, the arm came flying back! Yay!
 
I’m not sure there’s a worse track to try and diagnose this sort of thing than that! :rflmao:

But seriously, do you have anything a little more... tame? Mellow classic rock? Beatles? Clean vocals / instruments ideally.

Anyway, I actually thought it sounded fine... pretty good in fact. I think I heard more sibilance and distortion in your voice than the record!

A mat isn’t going to solve this problem, if there still is one. I also don’t think you’re chewing up your vinyl as-is, unless your mic isn’t picking up what you’re hearing. It is also possible that you’re now being hyper-critical (been there). I think a different genre, and perhaps a re-do of Queensryche would be helpful at this point.
 
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Literally right as you said, "Super noticeable there" I was thinking, "This sounds pretty good, I'm not sure what he's on about."

So either your head is messing with you or your recording setup just isn't catching it, or I have terrible ears. I like to think that I'd hear something of the magnitude you're describing, especially through my not-inexpensive headphones.
 
While listening to the first clip of Dire Straits, I was thinking “This sounds great! Oh no I wonder what he’s going to say.” I was relieved to hear you say the same.

I do not hear distortion, or sibilance. The Beastie Boys album (I have an original pressing) has a lot of sizzle, I think that’s just how it was recorded (or pressed) - it is one of the most noticeable in my collection.

Sibilance isn’t snappy S sounds, it’s more of a “CH” sound. Snappy, within reason, is ideal I believe.

I think you’ve got at the very least a passable alignment, probably more than sufficient at this stage with an elliptical stylus. And I think the stylus is fine. I think your turntable is fine. What you are hearing probably comes down to the entire system being overly bright. This could be due to the Ortofon, or your speakers, or preamp, or a combination of all of them interacting with each other.

At the same time, this isn’t the highest tier of vinyl audio reproduction, of course. I don’t know much about Ortofon’s frequency response, but you may find relief in upgrading to a 2M Blue (nude elliptical) stylus. Or perhaps another manufacturer with a different sound would benefit you. I always recommend Shure, and in fact there is a used vintage M97HE in box for $100 on eBay. It’s a bit of a dice roll with a used stylus, but there are plenty of replacements available, and this will undoubtedly be a different sound. In addition the more advanced HE stylus tip is able to resolve greater detail in the inner grooves where it matters most.

I think it is safe to say that the original topic of this thread can be retired: neither the Fluance or AT - a new TT plugged into your same system with the same cartridge and stylus will not make a meaningful impact on sound in my opinion.
 
tw1st said:
While listening to the first clip of Dire Straits, I was thinking “This sounds great! Oh no I wonder what he’s going to say.” I was relieved to hear you say the same.

I do not hear distortion, or sibilance. The Beastie Boys album (I have an original pressing) has a lot of sizzle, I think that’s just how it was recorded (or pressed) - it is one of the most noticeable in my collection.

Sibilance isn’t snappy S sounds, it’s more of a “CH” sound. Snappy, within reason, is ideal I believe.

I think you’ve got at the very least a passable alignment, probably more than sufficient at this stage with an elliptical stylus. And I think the stylus is fine. I think your turntable is fine. What you are hearing probably comes down to the entire system being overly bright. This could be due to the Ortofon, or your speakers, or preamp, or a combination of all of them interacting with each other.

At the same time, this isn’t the highest tier of vinyl audio reproduction, of course. I don’t know much about Ortofon’s frequency response, but you may find relief in upgrading to a 2M Blue (nude elliptical) stylus. Or perhaps another manufacturer with a different sound would benefit you. I always recommend Shure, and in fact there is a used vintage M97HE in box for $100 on eBay. It’s a bit of a dice roll with a used stylus, but there are plenty of replacements available, and this will undoubtedly be a different sound. In addition the more advanced HE stylus tip is able to resolve greater detail in the inner grooves where it matters most.

I think it is safe to say that the original topic of this thread can be retired: neither the Fluance or AT - a new TT plugged into your same system with the same cartridge and stylus will not make a meaningful impact on sound in my opinion.
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I definitely agree that the original topic can be retired for sure. It took quite a (gladly) unexpected turn for the saving. You guys have successfully saved me 300 bucks, and I shall put that money towards the 2M Blue. I look forward to it, and will invest in vintage carts once I become a bit more adept in the regards to my collection.

Regarding the "overly bright" sound, I will transfer the table onto my main listening deck, which is the 5.1 system I described earlier. It has a much higher end receiver, especially considering the original Sony was eighty bucks. The more I read on here (it's been a long while) the more I realize just how serious people are about the audio here, spending thousands of dollars on their perfect analog setup. In that regard, my setup could be considered a budget build. I guess I was expecting that "five thousand dollar sound" on my humble "Hi-Fi" setup.

What I was most concerned about, was the condition of the albums. I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing more harm than good, dropping that stylus each night, and I could not be more relieved to hear that claim was false.

It is more of a "CH" sound now that I think about it, I guess it really comes down to the album. I try to get decent shape albums, but I pay most attention to those "ground down" grooves. I actually quite like those clicks, and pops to my music. It gives it life that Spotify could never provide.

Thanks to all of you for listening to my recording, and getting actual feedback as to what was driving me so insane, and explaining that I didn't really have to be so insane.


Another successful thread I guess...

Take it easy all,

Brandon.
 
While the 2M Blue will be an upgrade, it may not be a very substantial one. It is $204 on Amazon right now.

The recently-discontinued Audio Technica AT440MLb is $199 on Amazon, and features a nude MicroLine stylus. I have read that AT cartridges have a bit of a top end boost, but I have also read that they are superb trackers, and the MicroLine dissolves sibilance and IGD issues. It is an advanced stylus profile which has increased contact with the grooves, and also is narrower to sit lower and possibly reach previously-unworn areas.

I don't know if it is a good match for your TT / arm, but at that price I would be seriously considering it. A comparable Ortofon cartridge / stylus (2M Bronze with a Fine Line tip) is $400+.
 
tw1st said:
While the 2M Blue will be an upgrade, it may not be a very substantial one. It is $204 on Amazon right now.

The recently-discontinued Audio Technica AT440MLb is $199 on Amazon, and features a nude MicroLine stylus. I have read that AT cartridges have a bit of a top end boost, but I have also read that they are superb trackers, and the MicroLine dissolves sibilance and IGD issues. It is an advanced stylus profile which has increased contact with the grooves, and also is narrower to sit lower and possibly reach previously-unworn areas.

I don't know if it is a good match for your TT / arm, but at that price I would be seriously considering it. A comparable Ortofon cartridge / stylus (2M Bronze with a Fine Line tip) is $400+.
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Looks pretty great! And even saves me 5 bucks!

I honestly have no idea where to start when it comes to high-end carts, so any feedback is appreciated! It will be about a month or two before the purchase is made, this is why I posted about the "new" TT's when I did, so it gave time for responses, which I never expected an almost five-page thread from. But, it sure was a good thing!
 
tw1st said:
. . . What you are hearing probably comes down to the entire system being overly bright. This could be due to the Ortofon, or your speakers, or preamp, or a combination of all of them interacting with each other.. . . I don’t know much about Ortofon’s frequency response, but you may find relief in upgrading to a 2M Blue (nude elliptical) stylus. Or perhaps another manufacturer with a different sound would benefit you. . .
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From a 2013 thread:
HiFi World reviewed all of the 2M cartridges from Ortofon, and said, "A notable feature of the new Ortofon 2M Moving Magnet cartridges is a frequency response that tilts slowly upward as frequency rises. I have never seen such a trend before in any cartridge. It suggests they will sound forward and detailed, certainly lacking the traditional warmth of moving magnets." In comparing them to products from Nagaoka and Shure, the latter were described as "warm, fluffy and romantic" while the 2M Ortofons were, "ruthlessly forensic" and "intensely communicative."

My preference has always been for cartridges on the warmish side, and my current favorite is the M97xE from Shure.
 
It's a hard balance to strike...detailed and revealing while still being warm and not harsh. I've never found that balance until I found the DL-300 from Denon. Previously, I had gone to Shure for warmth or AT for detail.
 
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