I always wondered about this but is it best to have just a full range speaker or is it best to have a two-way or three-way speaker system? I heard alot of full range speakers and they sound great but I noticed most speakers are two-ways or more. But is a full range speaker really the best though? just wondering.
Full range vs two-way or three-way
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nick12345
Well-Known Member
This is highly opinionated. Some swear by full-range, others prefer multi-way. My personal belief is that it's difficult to beat a good two-way system. Full-range speakers have trouble covering the entire spectrum unless you pay an arm and a leg, but on the other hand, they image very well. Three-ways aren't my favorite because they begin to introduce too many drivers. In my book, the ideal loudspeaker is a two-way coaxial, which combines the frequency range of a multi-way with the imaging of a full-range.
Keep in mind, this is just my opinion.
Keep in mind, this is just my opinion.
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
Whether a speaker is 2 way, 3 way or whatever, doesn't mandate whether a speaker is full range or not. A full range speaker IMO is one that can reach to a very minimum 30hz at -3db to flat.
It depends on various factors:
1. Is your room capable of handling a full range system? Some rooms are not capable of dealing with very low bass notes which may or may not be remedied by room treatment.
2. Can you afford such a speaker? Speakers that produce a fast and tight controlled bass down in 20-30hz region do not come cheap.
3. What are your priorities when it comes to music reproduction? Maybe you value precise imaging and a vast soundstage over ultimate deep bass reproduction? Or maybe you want a speaker with luscious mids and silky highs with plenty of air and detail. There are few speakers that excel at everything and those speakers are at the very upper limits of financial reach or just not feasible at all for most people. Therefore, often times you need to compromise what strengths you are looking for in a speaker.
4. What kind of music do you listen to? Maybe you listen to chamber music or small jazz quartets and do not necessarily need a full range speaker.
One kind of design isn't necessarily better than any other. Audio gear, as pretty much everything else in life, is about compromises and decisions that you make in order to best match you and your preferences.
It depends on various factors:
1. Is your room capable of handling a full range system? Some rooms are not capable of dealing with very low bass notes which may or may not be remedied by room treatment.
2. Can you afford such a speaker? Speakers that produce a fast and tight controlled bass down in 20-30hz region do not come cheap.
3. What are your priorities when it comes to music reproduction? Maybe you value precise imaging and a vast soundstage over ultimate deep bass reproduction? Or maybe you want a speaker with luscious mids and silky highs with plenty of air and detail. There are few speakers that excel at everything and those speakers are at the very upper limits of financial reach or just not feasible at all for most people. Therefore, often times you need to compromise what strengths you are looking for in a speaker.
4. What kind of music do you listen to? Maybe you listen to chamber music or small jazz quartets and do not necessarily need a full range speaker.
One kind of design isn't necessarily better than any other. Audio gear, as pretty much everything else in life, is about compromises and decisions that you make in order to best match you and your preferences.
theWB
Well-Known Member
Agreed
But I prefer stats to cones.
When listening to anything but Rock I use my full range stats.
Rock, I use the hybrids, when it comes to bass gotta have the cones to produce the really deep chest thumping bass.
But as others have said, as the price goes up in most cases so does the sound quality. It's all a matter of personal preference.
TerryO
Super Member
For the best sound a fullrange is best. They're called headphones.
If you mean a single driver "Extended range" speaker, they can get most of the frequency range, without the signal degrading crossover and it comes from a point source. The clarity and lucid sonic presentation can be very addictive in a well done single driver speaker. The biggest shortcoming is that they won't go from 20Hz to 20kHz by themselves, but most 2 and even 3-way speakers don't do it either. I've done both multi-way and FR single driver speakers and it depends on what you want.
Either is worthy if well done, they're just different approaches to quality sound.
Best Regards,
TerryO
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
Again there is no best dictated by the design of the speakers. It really falls upon budget and execution of that design whether it be a single driver, 2 way, 3 way, 4 way, or beyond.
History has proven that there have been cutting edge speaker designs using any number of drivers. It all falls down to your ears. Bottom line, the number of drivers does not equate to a better speaker or design on absolute terms.
For anyone to say a speaker design consisting of a certain number of drivers is better than another is absolutely absurd.
History has proven that there have been cutting edge speaker designs using any number of drivers. It all falls down to your ears. Bottom line, the number of drivers does not equate to a better speaker or design on absolute terms.
For anyone to say a speaker design consisting of a certain number of drivers is better than another is absolutely absurd.
N1ckR
Active Member
Another issue is that higher frequencies do not disperse as well for a fixed woofer size as lower frequencies - using a smaller source (as most tweeters are compared to woofers) restores the dispersion, this generally makes off axis response worse for full range VS 2 (OR 3 etc) way.
IMHO I agree with Sound on Sound (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul05/articles/monitors.htm), on their conclusion is that it can be much easier to get a 3-way system sound right than 2 way due to big disparity in size between woofer and tweeter.
IMHO I agree with Sound on Sound (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul05/articles/monitors.htm), on their conclusion is that it can be much easier to get a 3-way system sound right than 2 way due to big disparity in size between woofer and tweeter.
MunkeyQ
Super Member
Hmm...I'd disagree with that. Crossover design is much more complex with a 3 way to avoid interference between drivers, and phase must be corrected for. It's a lot easier with an active 3 way system though, but it's still a challenge.
Modern 8" woofers with a light cone and shorting ring in the motor can reach up to 1.5-2khz whilst still being pistonic and keeping a reasonable dispersion pattern. That's well into the comfortable territory of a 1" soft dome...
Coytee
Super Member
Growing up, I always thought more drivers were better as a matter of rule. I wondered why they didn't put a driver in, one for each octave kind of thing.
I even went so far (about age 12/14??) to take a saw & cut a hole in my 2-way Superscope speakeR (I only butchred one which is another mystery as to why I didn't do both... ran out of funds I guess)... anyways, I cut a hole in my 2-way Superscope and added a Radio Shack Midrange. Had no idea where to "plug it in" so if memory serves me, I think I wired in in parallel with the tweeter.
So much for knowing what I was doing at 12/14!
Later in life, I had a pair of Khorns sitting in my living room....my current living room. They sounded best when you got about 30' away from them as the sound out of a single speaker simply melted into a singular "bubble" of sound.
I later replaced the 3-way Khorn with the 2-way Jubilee (which was originally designed to replace the Khorn so it's probably the closest "A/B" of the 'same' speaker in both formats that I can think of)
So, now my 3-way's are replaced with signal aligned 2-ways. Now, I get this same quality "bubble" of sound about 7-10 feet away from the speaker instead of having to wait 30'.
It took me a while to figure out exactly why the sound was SO much more coherent SO much sooner.... I honestly figured it was because of the signal alignement that I was using in my active. Turns out that was wrong. It was losing a crossover point.
So, my 2 cents.... fewer drivers are ALWAYS better as long as those fewer drivers will successfully provide you with what ever your listening goals are.
Do you want outdoor "rock concert" levels? I doubt a 2-way will work for you. How about background level dinner music? Perhaps a single driver will work for you.
Now that I've had my own lightbulb go off, when I put my HT together downstairs, I'll be converting for sure, one of my LaScalas (3-way) into a 2-way speaker and if I can figure out how to stuff them into the tight space I have, I will convert my other two rear channels (also LaScalas) into 2-ways. I'm ok if I can't convert the rears.
I even went so far (about age 12/14??) to take a saw & cut a hole in my 2-way Superscope speakeR (I only butchred one which is another mystery as to why I didn't do both... ran out of funds I guess)... anyways, I cut a hole in my 2-way Superscope and added a Radio Shack Midrange. Had no idea where to "plug it in" so if memory serves me, I think I wired in in parallel with the tweeter.
So much for knowing what I was doing at 12/14!
Later in life, I had a pair of Khorns sitting in my living room....my current living room. They sounded best when you got about 30' away from them as the sound out of a single speaker simply melted into a singular "bubble" of sound.
I later replaced the 3-way Khorn with the 2-way Jubilee (which was originally designed to replace the Khorn so it's probably the closest "A/B" of the 'same' speaker in both formats that I can think of)
So, now my 3-way's are replaced with signal aligned 2-ways. Now, I get this same quality "bubble" of sound about 7-10 feet away from the speaker instead of having to wait 30'.
It took me a while to figure out exactly why the sound was SO much more coherent SO much sooner.... I honestly figured it was because of the signal alignement that I was using in my active. Turns out that was wrong. It was losing a crossover point.
So, my 2 cents.... fewer drivers are ALWAYS better as long as those fewer drivers will successfully provide you with what ever your listening goals are.
Do you want outdoor "rock concert" levels? I doubt a 2-way will work for you. How about background level dinner music? Perhaps a single driver will work for you.
Now that I've had my own lightbulb go off, when I put my HT together downstairs, I'll be converting for sure, one of my LaScalas (3-way) into a 2-way speaker and if I can figure out how to stuff them into the tight space I have, I will convert my other two rear channels (also LaScalas) into 2-ways. I'm ok if I can't convert the rears.
BadassBob
Digitally rendered
Single driver speakers definitely have a sweet sound, but theyre not for everybody. If you listen to metal, pop, or anything of that mature, they dont do the job well unless you have some top notch cabinetry. If youre a bluegrass or jazz kind of guy, they sound wonderful. I particularly like ambient/chillout/electronica type stuff on my FE207Es.
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onemug
Super Member
I'm sure there will be many opinions on this and there is no "one size fits all" answer (what would be the fun of that 
).
I like the idea of a 2 way and adding a sub to make it a true full range. Even without the sub, I like a 2 way especially with a well engineered x/o (simpler the better) and a higher x/o point so most of the musics fundalmentals can come out of single driver (the mid/woofer) and the transients can be handled by the tweeter. After years of listening to single driver speakers with no x/o, I've become a little put off with multi ways that have the mid-band cut up into 2 or 3 divisions. I'm not too sensitive to a x/o blending a sub in around 50-80 hz or a tweeter around 2.5 hz or above. That would give me about 5 octaves with no x/o in the mid-band. 2 ways can be placed in a room to give the best imaging while a sub could be put somewhere else for the best low bass response. There is an art to dialing it in though. Anyway, that's my vote.
). I like the idea of a 2 way and adding a sub to make it a true full range. Even without the sub, I like a 2 way especially with a well engineered x/o (simpler the better) and a higher x/o point so most of the musics fundalmentals can come out of single driver (the mid/woofer) and the transients can be handled by the tweeter. After years of listening to single driver speakers with no x/o, I've become a little put off with multi ways that have the mid-band cut up into 2 or 3 divisions. I'm not too sensitive to a x/o blending a sub in around 50-80 hz or a tweeter around 2.5 hz or above. That would give me about 5 octaves with no x/o in the mid-band. 2 ways can be placed in a room to give the best imaging while a sub could be put somewhere else for the best low bass response. There is an art to dialing it in though. Anyway, that's my vote.
Dallas, as has been stated excellent examples can be found of all the types you mentioned. There is no best way.
The best speaker is the speaker YOU like best, regardless of it's design.
The best speaker is the speaker YOU like best, regardless of it's design.
DaveElton
A Whiter Shade Of Pale
Tom summed it up very well:thmbsp: If you are curious about single "FR" drivers , give them an audition. An easy way is to get ahold of a competant "FR" single driver design and take a listen, this usualy can be done quite cheaply, then if you can find you like them, stick with 'em or look at the many newer very nice varients. All ears of course will vary, but I just had some Sinatra playing on my vintage 8" "FR" Utah system..."Sublime" to me
Good luck in your search!:yes:
dnewma04
The Healer
The first thing you need to do is determine what your listening preferences are. I'm not talking about vague type preferences either, but ranking the most important attributes of a good speaker in your opinion.
I'd be asking myself questions like:
1.) What volume level do I listen at?
2.) What kind of music will I be listening too, primarily?
3.) Is the ability to handle very dynamic music convincingly important?
4.) How important is frequency extension?
a.) Do I need to recreate very deep bass to be happy?
b.) How important are extended "shimmering" highs?
5.) What will me seating position be and will that be ideal with the speaker I choose?
6.) What kind of efficiency will I need to reach the output levels I need with my listening position and the power I have available?
7.) Do more subjective qualities like imaging, soundstage, and the like take a priority over some of the other attributes of a speaker?
Once you've gone through that process, you might be abe to eliminate one or the other from contention purely because of the lack of ability one may exhibit. For instance, a full range fostex trying to pull off some dynamic classical piece with 20-25dB of dynamic range will likely fall on it's face at anything but very low levels.
Or, if 20hz bass is an absolute requirement, perhaps you are going to eliminate a full range driver or start considering the addition of subwoofers to cover the bottom end.
My subjective preferences have progressively shifted towards speakers capable of large scale dynamics as I've found that they seem to pull off the realism I desire and speakers that aren't capable seem congested in comparison.
I'd be asking myself questions like:
1.) What volume level do I listen at?
2.) What kind of music will I be listening too, primarily?
3.) Is the ability to handle very dynamic music convincingly important?
4.) How important is frequency extension?
a.) Do I need to recreate very deep bass to be happy?
b.) How important are extended "shimmering" highs?
5.) What will me seating position be and will that be ideal with the speaker I choose?
6.) What kind of efficiency will I need to reach the output levels I need with my listening position and the power I have available?
7.) Do more subjective qualities like imaging, soundstage, and the like take a priority over some of the other attributes of a speaker?
Once you've gone through that process, you might be abe to eliminate one or the other from contention purely because of the lack of ability one may exhibit. For instance, a full range fostex trying to pull off some dynamic classical piece with 20-25dB of dynamic range will likely fall on it's face at anything but very low levels.
Or, if 20hz bass is an absolute requirement, perhaps you are going to eliminate a full range driver or start considering the addition of subwoofers to cover the bottom end.
My subjective preferences have progressively shifted towards speakers capable of large scale dynamics as I've found that they seem to pull off the realism I desire and speakers that aren't capable seem congested in comparison.
marc mc
Super Member
I run systems that range between 1 and 9 drivers. So I ask myself those questions before I pick a system to sit down with. No speaker system gets everything right.
Great post.
marc mc
TerryO
Super Member
Dave has provided a very good checklist that goes a long way toward simplifying an audition/evaluation process.
I think that one additional item might be needed:
Do vocals sound convincing?
I believe that the sound of the human voice is "the" sound that most are familiar with, from just about day one.
The midrange is the heart and soul of music, the rest is merely an adornment.
I don't think it's a secret that I hang out with many "fullrange" types, but very few that I know are adverse to complementing their "extended range" speakers with subwoofers or supertweeters. The role of crossovers is often downplayed with a desire to use the least intrusive topography possible, usually a first order crossover in the treble region, with bass augmentation using an active, lowpassed subwoofer amp and driver. The best results are commonly where the "fullrange" driver handles the frequencies between, say 300 Hz, and 3500 Hz or above.
I've heard a number of 3-way and a few 2-way speakers that really resemble what's described above. I believe that RayW's Big Bob speaker (I haven't heard it, but the people that have, rave about it!) utilizes a rather wide frequency range for the midrange and I know for certain that Gary Gesellchen's "Best of Show" (The Puget Sound! DIY Speaker Contest-2010) 3-way used a wide frequency range for his midrange. My entry to the contest (1st Place, 2-way) had the series crossover at 450 Hz (and would have been even lower if I could have done it) in order that the mid/vocal range wouldn't be incumbered by a crossover.
There are other examples, but I hope this is enough to illustrate what I'm trying to get across.
Best Regards,
TerryO
I think that one additional item might be needed:
Do vocals sound convincing?
I believe that the sound of the human voice is "the" sound that most are familiar with, from just about day one.
The midrange is the heart and soul of music, the rest is merely an adornment.
I don't think it's a secret that I hang out with many "fullrange" types, but very few that I know are adverse to complementing their "extended range" speakers with subwoofers or supertweeters. The role of crossovers is often downplayed with a desire to use the least intrusive topography possible, usually a first order crossover in the treble region, with bass augmentation using an active, lowpassed subwoofer amp and driver. The best results are commonly where the "fullrange" driver handles the frequencies between, say 300 Hz, and 3500 Hz or above.
I've heard a number of 3-way and a few 2-way speakers that really resemble what's described above. I believe that RayW's Big Bob speaker (I haven't heard it, but the people that have, rave about it!) utilizes a rather wide frequency range for the midrange and I know for certain that Gary Gesellchen's "Best of Show" (The Puget Sound! DIY Speaker Contest-2010) 3-way used a wide frequency range for his midrange. My entry to the contest (1st Place, 2-way) had the series crossover at 450 Hz (and would have been even lower if I could have done it) in order that the mid/vocal range wouldn't be incumbered by a crossover.
There are other examples, but I hope this is enough to illustrate what I'm trying to get across.
Best Regards,
TerryO
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