Full range vs two-way or three-way
- Thread starter Dallas84
- Start date
Never mind.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I know the feeling.
TerryO
Super Member
It's not your doing. I should have known better when I posted in the first place.
However, we shall yet endeavor to press on, steeled with our belief in the truth, fully committed to overcoming all obstacles, and with total confidence in our Ultimate Victory!
(or something
)
enitsugua
Member
Hi Dallas 84,
Going along the lines of the concept of High-Fidelity, where music should be represented as close to the recording the sound engineer had intended the listener to appreciate, I would say a three way speaker would be your end goal.
3 way speakers go as low as 16Hz to 45kHz. Sure you may not hear sounds lower than maybe below 30Hz, but you do FEEL the reproduction. Also, 45kHz maybe too high pitched to listen to, but it does give a certain honesty towards the highs.
In the two way speaker system, you will lose out information beyond the speaker's limitation. For example, If my speakers are 50Hz, then anything beyond 50Hz that the engineer had intended and recorded would be lost, or compressed into a higher frequency- you may hear the bass, but it will not go deep enough, nor would you feel its vibration.
Then again, if you listen to recordings that do not fall beyond the 2 way speakers, then it'll be okay. 3-way speakers will give you more versatility for the genres of music that you listen to.
Consider between a ported and non ported speaker, as the back ported speakers rely more on the environment to give you some bass extension. A top ported speaker relies minimally, but will still give you resonance. The non-ported speaker will rely entirely on the drivers. Of course the room plays a part, in different designed rooms, certain frequencies will be enhanced from the speakers that would cause reverberation or some echo. Mostly in bass frequencies, where you may find the music too boomy, or a lack of detail due to the non linearity of the overall sound. If too much bass in emphasized, then you may miss out on some nuances on the mid and highs.
The other school of thought is - if you're spending so much money on a pair of speakers, or a hi-fi system, would it be something that you like to listen to (preference), or something that is entirely honest.
I've heard some 2-way speakers like Opera, Sonus Faber, MBL, and some active studio speakers, and they do give very sweet mid and highs- even sweeter when driving with tubes. Great for vocals and acoustic set ups. Not too great for a full range orchestra or rock.
The 3 way speaker also typically better sound staging / imaging, whereby instruments' positioning are well defined.
IMO, you can start with a 2-way, 2 half way because its typically and relatively (to manufacturer) more affordable (less intricate cross over, less material in speaker cabinet), and grow to a 3-way, which is where you wanna end up with a good Hi-Fidelity system.
3 Way speaker system has its disadvantages: Sometimes they are not linear. Where when a woofer is bigger, against a tweeter that is smaller in size, their capacity to handle higher power is very different. Hence, for an instance, when you drive at a louder volume, the tweeter will not be able to handle such power (at perhaps limited to 150-200watts) and the bass woofer has the capacity to handle 300 watts RMS, then the bass will be producing a louder volume than the tweeter. Typically, the bigger the woofer, the more power it can handle. So instead of having the Bass, Mid, and Highs reaching you at the same time, you have the bass impact first, before the mid, then the highs, in differences in micro to milli seconds. What actually happens to the tweeters are that they just become hot from the over driving at its power handling limit, and will breakdown over a shorter than expected period of time, without the increase in volume.
A linear pair of speaker will be able to achieve this 'equal' level with multiple mid ranges and tweeters, to match the bass.
Sure, 3 ways are typically more expensive, even so for the linear types, which typically have more drivers. But that's the process. We grow from small systems to huge systems over many years and enjoy the difference in each 'upgrade'. Where money is no issue, it'll then boil down to which point do you want to start at.
Electronics also play a big part, but i guess that's up for another discussion.
I'm sure many ppl will have their opinions, so please bear in mind that this is mine, and it's my philosophy in approaching to purchase anything to do with my system.
In each system that I own, I identify which school of thought I will adopt, 1. Hi-Fi, 2. MY preference.
I have a few systems built on both philosophies, and I enjoy both very much. The Hi-Fi approach allows me to enjoy more genres of music. MY preference allows me to enjoy some, more than the others.
Thanks.
enit.
Going along the lines of the concept of High-Fidelity, where music should be represented as close to the recording the sound engineer had intended the listener to appreciate, I would say a three way speaker would be your end goal.
3 way speakers go as low as 16Hz to 45kHz. Sure you may not hear sounds lower than maybe below 30Hz, but you do FEEL the reproduction. Also, 45kHz maybe too high pitched to listen to, but it does give a certain honesty towards the highs.
In the two way speaker system, you will lose out information beyond the speaker's limitation. For example, If my speakers are 50Hz, then anything beyond 50Hz that the engineer had intended and recorded would be lost, or compressed into a higher frequency- you may hear the bass, but it will not go deep enough, nor would you feel its vibration.
Then again, if you listen to recordings that do not fall beyond the 2 way speakers, then it'll be okay. 3-way speakers will give you more versatility for the genres of music that you listen to.
Consider between a ported and non ported speaker, as the back ported speakers rely more on the environment to give you some bass extension. A top ported speaker relies minimally, but will still give you resonance. The non-ported speaker will rely entirely on the drivers. Of course the room plays a part, in different designed rooms, certain frequencies will be enhanced from the speakers that would cause reverberation or some echo. Mostly in bass frequencies, where you may find the music too boomy, or a lack of detail due to the non linearity of the overall sound. If too much bass in emphasized, then you may miss out on some nuances on the mid and highs.
The other school of thought is - if you're spending so much money on a pair of speakers, or a hi-fi system, would it be something that you like to listen to (preference), or something that is entirely honest.
I've heard some 2-way speakers like Opera, Sonus Faber, MBL, and some active studio speakers, and they do give very sweet mid and highs- even sweeter when driving with tubes. Great for vocals and acoustic set ups. Not too great for a full range orchestra or rock.
The 3 way speaker also typically better sound staging / imaging, whereby instruments' positioning are well defined.
IMO, you can start with a 2-way, 2 half way because its typically and relatively (to manufacturer) more affordable (less intricate cross over, less material in speaker cabinet), and grow to a 3-way, which is where you wanna end up with a good Hi-Fidelity system.
3 Way speaker system has its disadvantages: Sometimes they are not linear. Where when a woofer is bigger, against a tweeter that is smaller in size, their capacity to handle higher power is very different. Hence, for an instance, when you drive at a louder volume, the tweeter will not be able to handle such power (at perhaps limited to 150-200watts) and the bass woofer has the capacity to handle 300 watts RMS, then the bass will be producing a louder volume than the tweeter. Typically, the bigger the woofer, the more power it can handle. So instead of having the Bass, Mid, and Highs reaching you at the same time, you have the bass impact first, before the mid, then the highs, in differences in micro to milli seconds. What actually happens to the tweeters are that they just become hot from the over driving at its power handling limit, and will breakdown over a shorter than expected period of time, without the increase in volume.
A linear pair of speaker will be able to achieve this 'equal' level with multiple mid ranges and tweeters, to match the bass.
Sure, 3 ways are typically more expensive, even so for the linear types, which typically have more drivers. But that's the process. We grow from small systems to huge systems over many years and enjoy the difference in each 'upgrade'. Where money is no issue, it'll then boil down to which point do you want to start at.
Electronics also play a big part, but i guess that's up for another discussion.
I'm sure many ppl will have their opinions, so please bear in mind that this is mine, and it's my philosophy in approaching to purchase anything to do with my system.
In each system that I own, I identify which school of thought I will adopt, 1. Hi-Fi, 2. MY preference.
I have a few systems built on both philosophies, and I enjoy both very much. The Hi-Fi approach allows me to enjoy more genres of music. MY preference allows me to enjoy some, more than the others.
Thanks.
enit.
enitsugua
Member
Oh yes, if you'd like to blast music for your neighbors to enjoy, do consider either a very sensitive pair of speakers typically non linear unless pro audio like the set up you see these days at rock concerts with line array, or one with multiple drives that typically have a significantly higher power handling than 3 driver 3 way speakers!!
enit.
enit.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
TerryO
Super Member
Holy Smokes!
You've gotten into areas and come up with ideas that I've never thought of or even given any consideration. There's certainly a lot of fool for thought here, perhaps I need to fully reassess what "I thought" I understood about speakers.
Best Regards,
TerryO
TerryO
Super Member
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Touche. 
All the above being said, it doesn't take a 3-way to go 30 - 20000 -- plenty of good 2-ways can do it too. Full-rangers are out of the game at both ends, though.
All the above being said, it doesn't take a 3-way to go 30 - 20000 -- plenty of good 2-ways can do it too. Full-rangers are out of the game at both ends, though.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I had a pair of 2 way ESS AMT 1B monitors biamped with Hitachi HMA 7500 and HMA 8300 and custom electronic crossover. They went very deep and had EXCELLENT midrange and highs. Horns really sounded sweet through those things.Touche.
All the above being said, it doesn't take a 3-way to go 30 - 20000 -- plenty of good 2-ways can do it too. Full-rangers are out of the game at both ends, though.
dnewma04
The Healer
Ignorance is bliss.
Tristen
Active Member
just sayin'
As for me, I'm just about to buy some drivers et. al. for a three way system. I'm rather enjoying the differences between el-cheapo system A with an extended range and a tweeter with a 1uf cap on it and el-cheapo system B with 3 speakers and i-have-no-ideas-at-the-internals. Should end up somewhere in the high 90's db/w/m and go from 30hz to 40khz
I'll be using a first order crossover just for simplicity's sake.
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jstang
Honey,I can't hear you...
I prefer my Ohm Fs which are full range and no crossover. But.... they are rare / extreme in their approach. And are ages old at this point.....last ones being made in the early 80's.
Then a good two way is next on my list.
Crossover points just seem to leave holes and phase shifts to my ears. Maybe I just need to hear better 3 ways then the ones I have had.
jk
Then a good two way is next on my list.
Crossover points just seem to leave holes and phase shifts to my ears. Maybe I just need to hear better 3 ways then the ones I have had.
jk
bowtie427ss
Lunatic Member
Some would argue that they are physically or mechanically divided by virtue of the cone being constructed of differing materials each of which is intended to independently reproduce a different segment of their BW.
Western Electric did a similar thing with the 755/756 loudspeakers. They have a compliance near the middle portion of the cone surface. In some technical documents this compliance is referred to as a "mechanical" crossover as it divides the inner and outer cone sections which reproduce different portions of the audio spectrum.
Interestingly, both the Ohms and WE's are still sought after and highly respected to this day.
marc mc
Super Member
Yah but it is funny to see ignorance at that level is it not?
WOW!!! No wonder subs get the bad rap.
marc mc
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