• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Full range vs two-way or three-way

I prefer my Ohm Fs which are full range and no crossover. But.... they are rare / extreme in their approach. And are ages old at this point.....last ones being made in the early 80's.

Then a good two way is next on my list.

Crossover points just seem to leave holes and phase shifts to my ears. Maybe I just need to hear better 3 ways then the ones I have had.

jk

Yup. When I said, in my first post, "But beyond that, forget about full range speakers except for some of the more esoteric stuff.", the Ohm F's are exactly what I was thinking of. Those also have the best DEEP bass of anything I had ever heard back in the day. They are one of the few "affordable" speakers that I honestly think do not need a sub.
 
Yup. When I said, in my first post, "But beyond that, forget about full range speakers except for some of the more esoteric stuff.", the Ohm F's are exactly what I was thinking of. Those also have the best DEEP bass of anything I had ever heard back in the day. They are one of the few "affordable" speakers that I honestly think do not need a sub.

:no:
 
My current el cheapo set doesn't need a sub and they're just some old panasonic thrusters with upgraded cones... Friend passed them off to me for free, and they make my room rumble (I have a small room... Like 9'x9'
 
just becauzse i dont like to use subs dont meant that im ingnorant. and that my speakers were designd to to do the whole audio spectrum wihout any colorization or peaks or dropouts in anyway smooth transition from one freq to another. sure there are many many 3wat, 2 way that have peaks and dropouts in freq response but saying all do it just ignorant.
 
The challenge for subs is going to remain for the life of this hobby.

The first error that seems to prevail is that subs are for "making up" or "filling in" what a speaker is incapable of.

The second is that subs are for the "Subsonic region" of the audio spectrum.

The third is that subs originated in Home Theater, and thats were they belong.

The fourth is subs are for rattling things, booming and exploding sounds.

The fifth and worst is the idea that trying a $70 POS sub in your system is more than enough exposure to yatter on forums about anything.

The sixth is to even suggest one or more of the first 5 is even remotely true, is proof positive that you have never heard a decent sub set up or don't know what your talking about.

marc mc
 
Last edited:
back on topic though in my own opinion i whatever the listener likes and perfers. wether you like fullrange, 2way or 3way its all matter of opinion and take it as such. the only real thing should make a decision is your ears. and back to the debate that was going on depends on the type of music you listen to as well with subs.

from wiki
Home audioThe use of a subwoofer augments the bass capability of the main speakers, and allows them to be smaller without sacrificing low frequency capability. A subwoofer does not necessarily provide superior bass performance in comparison to large conventional loudspeakers on ordinary music recordings due to the typical lack of very low frequency content on such sources. However, there are recordings with substantial low frequency content that most conventional loudspeakers are ill-equipped to handle without the help of a subwoofer, especially at high playback levels, such as music for pipe organs with 32' bass pipes (16 Hz), very large bass drums on symphony orchestra recordings and electronic music with extremely low synth bass parts.
 
Last edited:
Elephants are extinct on all 15 planets in the solar system aren't they? That's what I learned on wikipedia. :)

Anyway...
 
the best about the wiki is you have to have refrences and you can change what it says if you got the refrence for it. i have always used wiki and then made my own conclusions on an issue.
 
Hi Dallas 84,

Going along the lines of the concept of High-Fidelity, where music should be represented as close to the recording the sound engineer had intended the listener to appreciate, I would say a three way speaker would be your end goal.

3 way speakers go as low as 16Hz to 45kHz. Sure you may not hear sounds lower than maybe below 30Hz, but you do FEEL the reproduction. Also, 45kHz maybe too high pitched to listen to, but it does give a certain honesty towards the highs.

In the two way speaker system, you will lose out information beyond the speaker's limitation. For example, If my speakers are 50Hz, then anything beyond 50Hz that the engineer had intended and recorded would be lost, or compressed into a higher frequency- you may hear the bass, but it will not go deep enough, nor would you feel its vibration.

Then again, if you listen to recordings that do not fall beyond the 2 way speakers, then it'll be okay. 3-way speakers will give you more versatility for the genres of music that you listen to.

Consider between a ported and non ported speaker, as the back ported speakers rely more on the environment to give you some bass extension. A top ported speaker relies minimally, but will still give you resonance. The non-ported speaker will rely entirely on the drivers. Of course the room plays a part, in different designed rooms, certain frequencies will be enhanced from the speakers that would cause reverberation or some echo. Mostly in bass frequencies, where you may find the music too boomy, or a lack of detail due to the non linearity of the overall sound. If too much bass in emphasized, then you may miss out on some nuances on the mid and highs.

The other school of thought is - if you're spending so much money on a pair of speakers, or a hi-fi system, would it be something that you like to listen to (preference), or something that is entirely honest.

I've heard some 2-way speakers like Opera, Sonus Faber, MBL, and some active studio speakers, and they do give very sweet mid and highs- even sweeter when driving with tubes. Great for vocals and acoustic set ups. Not too great for a full range orchestra or rock.

The 3 way speaker also typically better sound staging / imaging, whereby instruments' positioning are well defined.

IMO, you can start with a 2-way, 2 half way because its typically and relatively (to manufacturer) more affordable (less intricate cross over, less material in speaker cabinet), and grow to a 3-way, which is where you wanna end up with a good Hi-Fidelity system.

3 Way speaker system has its disadvantages: Sometimes they are not linear. Where when a woofer is bigger, against a tweeter that is smaller in size, their capacity to handle higher power is very different. Hence, for an instance, when you drive at a louder volume, the tweeter will not be able to handle such power (at perhaps limited to 150-200watts) and the bass woofer has the capacity to handle 300 watts RMS, then the bass will be producing a louder volume than the tweeter. Typically, the bigger the woofer, the more power it can handle. So instead of having the Bass, Mid, and Highs reaching you at the same time, you have the bass impact first, before the mid, then the highs, in differences in micro to milli seconds. What actually happens to the tweeters are that they just become hot from the over driving at its power handling limit, and will breakdown over a shorter than expected period of time, without the increase in volume.

A linear pair of speaker will be able to achieve this 'equal' level with multiple mid ranges and tweeters, to match the bass.

Sure, 3 ways are typically more expensive, even so for the linear types, which typically have more drivers. But that's the process. We grow from small systems to huge systems over many years and enjoy the difference in each 'upgrade'. Where money is no issue, it'll then boil down to which point do you want to start at.

Electronics also play a big part, but i guess that's up for another discussion.

I'm sure many ppl will have their opinions, so please bear in mind that this is mine, and it's my philosophy in approaching to purchase anything to do with my system.

In each system that I own, I identify which school of thought I will adopt, 1. Hi-Fi, 2. MY preference.

I have a few systems built on both philosophies, and I enjoy both very much. The Hi-Fi approach allows me to enjoy more genres of music. MY preference allows me to enjoy some, more than the others.


Thanks.
enit.

Just a couple of minor points. The number of drivers has no bearing on the frequency response of a speaker. There are examples of multi way speakers that are out performed by single driver types.
Power handling has nothing to do with how loud a particular driver is with regards to bass and treble speakers. A driver that is 86dB 1 watt 1 meter will require more power to produce the same volume than a driver that is 95 dB 1 watt 1 meter.
Most single driver speakers will image much better than most three way speakers because they don't have the influence of the crossover.
There are some incredibly cheap three ways and some incredibly expensive single driver speakers and vice versa. Cost doesn't seem to be related to the number of drivers in the box.
 
Don't get me started Tom. I bought altec 19s because of your high opinion and now you're an E-stat guy.
 
Don't get me started Tom. I bought altec 19s because of your high opinion and now you're an E-stat guy.

I'd still have the 19s had I the room. I figure stats are next best.

I'll kiddin' aside back in the 70s I had a Magnavox TV with an 8" speaker and that thing sounded great listening to Don Kirshner's Rock Concert. Really.
 
The challenge for subs is going to remain for the life of this hobby.

The first error that seems to prevail is that subs are for "making up" or "filling in" what a speaker is incapable of.

The second is that subs are for the "Subsonic region" of the audio spectrum.

The third is that subs originated in Home Theater, and thats were they belong.

The fourth is subs are for rattling things, booming and exploding sounds.

The fifth and worst is the idea that trying a $70 POS sub in your system is more than enough exposure to yatter on forums about anything.

The sixth is to even suggest one or more of the first 5 is even remotely true, is proof positive that you have never heard a decent sub set up or don't know what your talking about.

marc mc
Subs are like pickup trucks. They come in various shapes, sizes and prices, and different people use them for different things.
 
Back
Top Bottom