Grace 707 tonearm - Is Grace F8 or F9 the better mate?
- Thread starter Johncan
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I don't believe you can go wrong with either, both exceptional cartridges. That said, the F-9 was an improved version of the F-8 meant to work with a greater majority of arms so a bit less compliant overall. The G707 isn't in the ultralight category of the Legendary Infinity Black Widow so will accommodate more cartridges.
Before the Grace I had a Grado Platinum wood body mounted that worked very well until my cleaning lady dusted it into oblivion, along with my Denon DL301. Replaced that with a Grado Blue with an 8MZ stylus, nice but not in the same league as the Platinum.
Next I tried several Pickering cartridges, an XV15 1200E/D1200, and XV15 625E/D625, both exhibited sibilance with the Grace arm on certain records the others had no issues with. All this led me to obtaining the Grace cartridges, glad I did.
I have several Grace cartridges, currently running a Grace F-8L10' Advanced Luminal Trace 10th anniversary edition cartridge on my Kenwood KD500/Grace G707 setup. The stylus are interchangeable so I will at times use one of my Grace F-8C Custom stylus on the arm, both are stunning.
The Custom stylus has a bit more forward presentation over the more laid back Advanced Luminal Trace, both are outstanding. And the synergy of having a cartridge and arm designed to work together can't be denied.
Also running an F-8C Custom cartridge and stylus on the Well Tempered Lab, simply superb. As great as the cartridge is on the Grace arm the WTL shows more of just what these great cartridges are capable of.
on the Kenwood KD500
on the Well Tempered Lab
the F-8L10' Advanced Luminal Trace stylus
the F-8C Custom Luminal Trace stylus
Before the Grace I had a Grado Platinum wood body mounted that worked very well until my cleaning lady dusted it into oblivion, along with my Denon DL301. Replaced that with a Grado Blue with an 8MZ stylus, nice but not in the same league as the Platinum.
Next I tried several Pickering cartridges, an XV15 1200E/D1200, and XV15 625E/D625, both exhibited sibilance with the Grace arm on certain records the others had no issues with. All this led me to obtaining the Grace cartridges, glad I did.
I have several Grace cartridges, currently running a Grace F-8L10' Advanced Luminal Trace 10th anniversary edition cartridge on my Kenwood KD500/Grace G707 setup. The stylus are interchangeable so I will at times use one of my Grace F-8C Custom stylus on the arm, both are stunning.
The Custom stylus has a bit more forward presentation over the more laid back Advanced Luminal Trace, both are outstanding. And the synergy of having a cartridge and arm designed to work together can't be denied.
Also running an F-8C Custom cartridge and stylus on the Well Tempered Lab, simply superb. As great as the cartridge is on the Grace arm the WTL shows more of just what these great cartridges are capable of.
on the Kenwood KD500
on the Well Tempered Lab
the F-8L10' Advanced Luminal Trace stylus
the F-8C Custom Luminal Trace stylus
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keilau
AK Member
As you said, the Grace 707 is an ultra light weight tonearm at 7 grams. You want to use a light weight cartridge with high dynamic compliance. I am not familiar with the Grace cartridge. Looking them up at Vinylengine Cartridge database, most F8's at 20 x 10-6cm/Dyne are a good match. Most F9's at 10 x 10-6cm/Dyne will not work with the Grace arm. I noticed that not all F8's and F9's are the same. There is one F8 at 10 x 10-6cm/Dyne and one F9 at 20 x 10-6cm/Dyne. Check the compliance spec at 10 Hz of the F8 cartridge you are interested before you buy.
I have a Grace 707 on a Thorens TD-160 and use it with a Dynavector Karat Ruby 23R for many years. At 15 x 10-6cm/Dyne, the Karat Ruby works very well with the Grace 707. I will not pair the 707 with any cartridge with less than 15 x 10-6cm/Dyne at 10 Hz. Today's trend is high mass arm and low compliance cartridge. It is difficult to find high compliance cartridge at good price. Good luck.
keilau
AK Member
With the Grace F-8L and the Grace F-8C, you have the optimal cartridge selection for the Kenwood KD500/Grace G707 setup. Both cartridge are high compliance cartridge with 20 x 10-6cm/Dyne and 25 x 10-6cm/Dyne respectively, and a low cartridge weight.
Customized stylus sometimes can change the compliance dramatically. Do you have the measured dynamic compliance of them? I assume that the stylus maker will tailor the compliance design to the cartridge. But it is interesting to know what it is.
And why I chose them, it wasn't by chance.
It's a Grace F-8C Custom, purchased 2 NOS as seen in the photos above one with a NOS cartridge. The other NOS SIB along with a pre-owned F-8C cartridge. The replacement stylus was labeled G8-LC, or Custom if you will.
The F-8L10' Advanced Luminal Trace 10th anniversary edition cartridge and stylus were also purchased NOS, you don't want to know how much they were lol.
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keilau
AK Member
Actually, I am dying to know where you get them and for how much. I am looking for a new cartridge for the Thorens TD160Grace 707 combo. The Dynavector Karat cartridge, even the used/need rebuild one, has gone up so much, it is no longer affordable for vintage gear update. The Grace F8C will fit the bill nicely if I can find NOS.
You obviously know a lot more about vinyl gears. Can you help?
WOW, that's a tall order lol.
purchased my first, the NOS F-8L10' about 4yrs ago on eBay for $150ish if memory serves. Liking it so much and noticing the F-8C might be a better match I set a search on eBay for one.
I picked up the NIB G8-CL stylus and preowned F-8C cartridge next about 3yrs ago and used that in the above cartridge back and forth with the Advanced Luminal Trace stylus. Both sound superb, no real preference of one over the other though they do sound different as described earlier.
With my search still on I picked up the NOS F-8C Custom cartridge and stylus seen in the display case posted earlier, that was about 2yrs ago. I put that in a drawer and completely forgot about it until trying to mount my Grado Blue/8MZ on the Well Tempered Lab ran into mounting hardware difficulties.
Looking through the drawer I see the plastic display case, "ah ha" I say, "that should do nicely". Install the Grace on the WTL and was bowled over, THIS is the same cartridge im hearing on the Kenny? No way.
All that said, the prices even 2yrs ago weren't what they are today, none of my purchases were over $190. One of the reasons I went with the F8 over the F9, but the secret seems to be out, and I might be partially to blame raving about these on AK sorry to say lol.
