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Hana EL or EH?

One side question: I just found out that the DL-103r is low compliance and therefore requires a high mass tonearm. Mine -a Project 9- has 11grs of effective mass. I'm guessing that may be too light for a 103r, right? Should I just start looking at the 301 mk2 instead?
 
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sqlsavior said:
Umm, nope. Both stylus shapes are available with both outputs, AFAIK.
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Yes, you are correct. My bad. Nevertheless, elliptical styli are more forgiving of VTA than Shibata or line contact styli. So if one cannot adjust the tonearm VTA, probably better to stick with an elliptical stylus.
 
There seems to be quite a bit of controversy around how massive a tonearm needs to be for the 103/103r cartridge to shine. I have a Denon DL-103 on a 16.5g Thorens tonearm and really like the way it sounds. Would the 103 sound even better on a more massive tonearm? Perhaps but I'm not worrying about it. I've tried several different cartridges on this Thorens tonearm and to me, the 103 sounds the best.

I also have a Thorens table with a 7.5g tonearm. I have the DL-301 MkII cartridge on that arm. To me, the 301 is a more refined and open sounding cartridge (than the 103). I am amazed sometimes as to just how much the 301 lets me "see into" the music. That said, I'd be hard pressed to pick a favorite between the two.

From what I've read, I think the 301 would be the safer choice than the 103r for your 11 gram tonearm. I have not tried (and do not plan on trying) my 103 on the less massive Thorens arm.

BTW, I've found that the 301 really performs in my system by using a Denon AU-300LC step up transformer into a Parks Audio Budgie phono pre. I picked up the 300LC for a nice price on AK's BarterTown not all that long ago.

Good luck with your cartridge choice.
 
fedocable said:
One side question: I just found out that the DL-103r is low compliance and therefore requires a high mass tonearm. Mine -a Project 9- has 11grs of effective mass. I'm guessing that may be too light for a 103r, right? Should I just start looking at the 301 mk2 instead?
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Have you considered the Audio Technica AT OC-9 III ? :idea:

It is quite similar to the Denon DL- 304 in performance and compliance. :thumbsup:

Solid boron rod cantilever with line contact stylus.
https://www.lpgear.com/product/ATOC9III.html
 
fedocable said:
What about the AT33EV? Have you heard it? I read many comments comparing it to the OC9ML (II or III), and they all seem to prefer AT33.
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I have not heard the AT 33EV for very long.

More gravitated to the AT 33 PTG / II with the Boron solid taper cantilever and Solid micro linear needle. :thumbsup:

That has similar compliance as the Audio Technica AT-OC9ML/II.
 
I was just reading comments about the AT33PTG/II right now. I does look like a winner, I must say.
Apparently, both the AT33EV and the OC9ML can sound a trifle on the bright side; this one, on the other hand, is apparently very smooth. Costs some dollars more, too.
 
Calypte said:
rothwellaudio: Thank you for your comments. Let me ask this: Let's say an MC cart has a recommended load of >100 ohms. Why not just use 47k?
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In theory, you could just use 47k. In practice there's no advantage to using a load impedance higher than it needs to be and there's a possibility that the cartridge could produce noise above the audio band with a high impedance load. With a lower impedance that noise would be damped.
Many cartridge manufacturers state the recommended load as "greater than X ohms" rather than a particular figure and the importance of the "correct" load and its effects on the sound are a matter of debate. In the case of the Hana cartridge, maybe it is unusually sensitive to load impedance. If the OP has doubts about it there are plenty of other cartridges to choose from.
 
Well, FWIW I went from a Denon DL103r to a Hanna SL over a year ago. I had it setup at Echo Audio in Portland OR by Kurt Doslu - a guy that knows quite a bit about analog. He recommended it over another Denon. I was all setup to run with a Grado Sonata II but Kurt really liked the new Hana carts. I ended up going with his recommendation with some trepidation. I'm currently running a Jolida JD 9. I set the input resistance to 300 ohms (with the options being 100, 300, 1K and 47K). Overall I have been very pleased - I think it bested the Denon 103r. I wanted a more laid back presentation; I am running a Sumiko Blackbird LO on my other system and it seems a tad bright at times. I guess some would call it "detailed" or "sparkling" but I like a fatter midrange. I have a couple different phono preamps so your thread makes me want to play a bit with the settings on the Joloda and maybe swap it out for the Modwright SWP.
 
fedocable said:
Most of the great opinions about Hana come, indeed, from professional reviewers. The number of actual real-world opinions and praising about them is insignificant compared to, say, what you may find about Denon or AT cartridges.
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A true "cartridge expert" who is also "one of us", wrote this about the Hana carts: "Not really bad, not really good. Just so-so. But people who never heard better might love them."

He used to comment regularly on AK, until about a year ago; many of us remember him and miss his contributions. I quote him because you mention the lack of "actual real-world opinions", and he's very real-world.

I said before I've never heard a Hana cart, so have no opinion. But seeing the product launch and the ad-dollars, it looked like a company cashing in on the "vinyl revival". As so many in this new market are inexperienced, they have no way to make informed decisions. This, plus changes in culture, make marketing and "branding" a dominant force.

Your other statement — "most of the great opinions about Hana come, indeed, from professional reviewers" — raises a big question: Who/What is a "professional reviewer" today?

But AK has not been receptive to such discussions in the past, so I'll leave it at that.
 
fedocable said:
Thanks a lot, bimasta; you called me back to my senses. It's rather easy to get lost in the labyrinths after 48 hours of non-stop internet browsing -we all know that dark tunnel here, I'm sure. I agree with your view on audio websites or magazines; and I gather one reads those professional reviews mainly looking for reassurance, but when it comes to making choices we tend to trust much more in our fellow audio enthusiasts.
A couple of things I've realized from this discussion:
1) Perfect impedance match between cartridge and preamp is absolutely not a sine qua non. But it may be the case with these bloody Hana. Take a look at the answer I got in another forum: "the Hana's are greatly effected by impedance , more than any other cartridge I have used. My tube pre only went to 300 ohms and the Hana SL I had tried sounded like crap. I tried adding a step up transformer that had a 500 ohm winding but it still sounded bad. I ended up just selling the SL. So yes, they need the 600 ohm loading."
2) If I'm going with an MC cartridge, it will be a low output one. (But not as low as the DL-304 again).
3) Most of the great opinions about Hana come, indeed, from professional reviewers. The number of actual real-world opinions and praising about them is insignificant compared to, say, what you may find about Denon or AT cartridges.
This is why, on second thoughts, I'm starting to think that the Denon DL-103r (or maybe the DL-301 mkii) would be a much wiser choice in my case -I had ruled it out merely based on one of those reviews! Another interesting candidate would be the Nagaoka MP-200. According to the passionate Ian from HiViNyws (youtube) it's a hell of a cartridge -he actually made a long review comparing the lesser MP-150 with the Hana EL, and declared the former to be better in almost all respects.
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Before you dismiss Hana carts on the back of just one or two opinions, it might be worth having a read of this SH thread...no shortage of real-world opinions/reviews there...

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/hana-cartridges.494064/
 
Thanks bimasta and willboy. Indeed, I myself have found quite a few opinions on the Hanas since I posted that. I must say that they not always concur with the opinion quoted by bimasta (by Needlestein, I presume?). The EL and EH are usually highly regarded, and the SL arises raving enthusiasm -but that one is really out of my reach, I'm afraid.
Now, for 100 bucks more than the EH I could get the Audio Technica AT-33ptg/II, and I'm considering stretching my budget towards it. Any opinions about it?
 
AT33PTG/II is my daily driver cartridge. Have not used the Hana so I cannot compare, but very happy with the Audio-Technica, I would buy it again without reservations.
 
You are not alone in that opinion, mprince. I'm yet to find a negative comment on that cartridge.
Now, other than Japan sellers on ebay or amazon (which could be risky, since I need the cartridge to arrive on te 16th tops), they seem to have one in stock at LP Gear. Is that site trust-worthy?
 
I got mine from 2juki on eBay and it arrived quickly (I want to say under a week), I have bought a bunch in the past from LPGear and would have no concerns with ordering from them.
 
I've just checked 2juki at ebay. Buying today, the estimated delivery would be between the 8th and 13th -and I come back to my country on the 16th. Price, including shipping and insurance, is 527, against 549 in LP Gear. I guess there's no point in taking the risk of a delay for 20 bucks less.
 
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