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Has vinyl peaked?

J

JohnVF

Lunatic Member
Banned
I'm placing this in general audio because I feel it would be more biased to ponder it in the turntable forum.

I've just been noticing in my travels in the past year that there's less and less discussion, out and about, in regards to turntables, cartridges, etc. Everybody is talking about DACs. Even I am. So maybe I'm more in tune to it, as my interest has shifted. But I hardly ever see a turntable playing in a store.

I see that kids are into it like they've always been, and probably even more so. But as far as high-end playback, I don't really see much going on at the sales level (just in observation, I don't have sales figures). And I fear that a bunch of tables are flooding the market in response to a demand that was there 2 years ago, that is overestimated now.

I'm just curious what everybody else sees where they are. There seems to be a slackening of interest here in Chicago in the audio scene. Even at the local AK get together, I don't think anybody played a record or brought a record player.

Has it peaked? Will it plateau? Will it grow or decline?
 
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JohnVF said:
I'm placing this in general audio because I feel it would be more biased to ponder it in the turntable forum.

I've just been noticing in my travels in the past year that there's less and less discussion, out and about, in regards to turntables, cartridges, etc. Everybody is talking about DACs. Even I am. So maybe I'm more in tune to it, as my interest has shifted. But I hardly ever see a turntable playing in a store.

I see that kids are into it like they've always been, and probably even more so. But as far as high-end playback, I don't really see much going on at the sales level (just in observation, I don't have sales figures). And I fear that a bunch of tables are flooding the market in response to a demand that was there 2 years ago, that is overestimated now.

I'm just curious what everybody else sees where they are. There seems to be a slackening of interest here in Chicago in the audio scene. Even at the local AK get together, I don't think anybody played a record or brought a record player.

Has it peaked? Will it plateau? Will it grow or decline?
Click to expand...

I hope so , the prices are killing me :tears:
 
Ooh, I hope those turntables are flooding the market. Then, in a few years, those of us still into records can buy them for a song. As interests in different technologies wax and wane, many of us stay the course, following the old adage, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I know I'll never lose interest in vinyl, as in my experience it is the best audio playback format that is readily available (and absurdly cheap, if you don't mind buying used). I must admit that I've never heard DAC or FLAC or any other ACK. If I found the equipment for cheap, I might give it a try, but past experience has made me distrustful of digital. So, at least this old curmudgeon is sticking with his turntables and records. If that puts me in the minority of even audiophiles, then oh well, I'm used to being on the fringe in many regards.
 
When I buy new vinyl it's usually from Rasputin's or Amoeba. They have a pretty good and ever growing selection of new and old releases. The problem I find is that most of the albums I want to get are on back order. On Rasputin's 1st page of new vinyl releases, 17 out of 20 are on back order. Somebody is still buying the stuff.
 
I don't know how vinyl sales are faring among high-end audio owners, but among the buying public as a whole they continue to rise: up 89% to 1.9 million in 2008, up 33% to 2.5 million in 2009, up 14% to 2.8 million in 2010, up 39% to 3.9 million in 2011, and up 17.7% to 4.6 million in 2012. These figures are just new vinyl, not used.

That being said, sales didn't rise at nearly the same rate in 2012 as they did in 2011. So, there might be something to your theory about vinyl sales peaking. To really assess that, though, I guess you'd have to compare to digital (CD, MP3, etc.) sales and overall sales for the same time period. Did digital sales and overall record sales also follow similar patterns in 2011 and 2012, or just vinyl?
 
i wonder sometimes whether standalone DACs are all that mainstream anyway. sure digital files are more widespread but do they benefit from such DACs? doubt it.
 
davidro said:
i wonder sometimes whether standalone DACs are all that mainstream anyway.
Click to expand...

Yeah, everyone I know that isn't into audio looks at me like I have ten heads when I mention the word DAC, and that includes many hardcore music lovers. In contrast, everyone knows what a record player and a CD player are.
 
Yeah I really don't see DAC's on the rise, especially with the youth. I think they would rather get Beats headphones or a Bose dock than a DAC.

I probably won't buy a DAC because I get very ADHD with my music on the computer. I mostly use it for background purposes or when I had too much to drink and don't want to mess with the turntable.
 
Not yet. The market is still being flooded by new phono stages, turntables, tone arms, cartridges and new vinyl releases. It remains to be seen how long this trend will continue. I don't see it going on for much longer.
 
I don't know about your theory, you might be right, I went into Urban OUtfitters the other day which used to have a decent selection of vinyl... They've pretty much got rid of it which does indicate the end of a hipster trend.

As to DACs I know standalone DACs are all the rage now, I've never heard one because I'm just not sure the gains are likely to be as big as the prices seem to be. I compared the DAC on my PC soundcard to the DAC in my receiver (both very good DACS, the one in the receiver being slightly better) and I really couldn't tell them apart after critical listening.

In the end I think I'll keep on buying vinyl, while the treble is crisper and cleaner with digital there really never seems to be much life in the bass.
 
Hard to say. I'm not sure how much high-end audiophiles contributed to sales of vinyl throughout the "resurgence" anyway. I think a lot of what draws many people to vinyl playback is the tangible aspect of it, and the fragility. The records have value because they are real and they demand the investment of a certain amount of care. I think some people enjoy having a tangible representation of the music, rather than the virtual one that digital downloads represent. CDs may be dying because they don't do either thing very well... they're a poor tangible representation (because of their size, their disappearance into a magic box for playback, the lousy quality of the liner art, etc.) and they're less convenient than a digital download. I think that even if digital sounds as good as or better than vinyl, there will still be a lot of people who appreciate the other aspects of LPs.
 
I guess I'm more looking at it from the audio-gear-fan perspective. Audiophile or whatever you want to call it. I certainly see that vinyl is still popular among a lot of people, mostly younger people around here. It does seem to have at least plateaued, though. Those who were going to get into vinyl, seem to have already done so.

In hi-fi stores and even magazines, etc, its all DAC this, DAC that.

To those who went to any of the recent audio shows, what was the majority of the source gear? Was there a lot of analog? I have no idea..couldn't get to Axpona as I was out of town.

For my non-audiophile, non-hipster friends, and even some of my hipster friends, the trend seems to be towards services like Mog or Spotify. Streaming music that you buy access to but don't actually own a physical or digital copy of. I learned about Mog from a 25 year old girl who looked at me like I had three heads when I told her I didn't know what Mog was. I'm glad she let me in on it, its fantastic, and I listen to it more than I play my records.
 
vinyl peak?

I don't think so. My own experience has cart's. a number one priority for upgrade. Really looking at a MC but not now. Appreciate the AK folks posting same LP comparisons. I always was afraid of buying an MC cart. and have it sound not much better that what I already have with MM.
LP's are available but nothing new, I prefer GW and savers for my purchases.
My own home built tonearm and TT satisfy me to no end.
I really don't show up on any LP or TT purchase data info. because I won't buy new. Not at the prices they are asking. I prefer to pay .99 over $20 or $ 30 for digital recorded stuff that sounds lousy.
Sort of a challenge finding the best sounding LP's.

Paul
 
steelglam said:
Yeah, everyone I know that isn't into audio looks at me like I have ten heads when I mention the word DAC, and that includes many hardcore music lovers. In contrast, everyone knows what a record player and a CD player are.
Click to expand...

While they may not know it, they do own DACs. Everything with digital files and an analog output has a DAC somewhere in the chain. The only difference is that they aren't high quality DACs. You can say the same about cartridges, non-audiophiles way back when weren't swapping out cartridges.
 
Taowolf51 said:
While they may not know it, they do own DACs. Everything with digital files and an analog output has a DAC somewhere in the chain. The only difference is that they aren't high quality DACs. You can say the same about cartridges, non-audiophiles way back when weren't swapping out cartridges.
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Yes, of course they own DACs (internal to their players). They just don't know or care what a DAC is.

And that's a good comparison to non-audiophiles and cartridges. In fact, I think a lot of casual listeners didn't even know what a cartridge was. Just that they "needed a new needle."
 
I think another thing that may be driving vinyl sales is not the hipsters but people like me. Late 40s to late 50s people who grew up with vinyl, and who are becoming empty-nesters. Many of us didn't even have an audio system for 20 years... video games, VCRs then DVD or maybe home theater. We didn't have time to just listen to music, and a turntable and records were too much trouble for background listening. Now we have the time and the money and the space (well, I don't have the money or the space but that's a different story) to enjoy LPs once again. I have several friends, male and female, who are going down this path. Demographically, I guess we're enough to fuel a resurgence for the next 10 or 20 years, but unless vinyl really grabs hold of a younger generation, that'll be the end. Maybe sooner.
 
pdm4606 said:
I don't think so. My own experience has cart's. a number one priority for upgrade. Really looking at a MC but not now. Appreciate the AK folks posting same LP comparisons. I always was afraid of buying an MC cart. and have it sound not much better that what I already have with MM.
LP's are available but nothing new, I prefer GW and savers for my purchases.
My own home built tonearm and TT satisfy me to no end.
I really don't show up on any LP or TT purchase data info. because I won't buy new. Not at the prices they are asking. I prefer to pay .99 over $20 or $ 30 for digital recorded stuff that sounds lousy.
Sort of a challenge finding the best sounding LP's.

Paul
Click to expand...
But as such (and I mean no judgement by this) you're already out of the market, as a financial concern anyway. With no new turntables or records to consider, you're invisible to the rise or fall of vinyl, accept for your potential cartridge purchase (cough Dynavector 10x5 cough cough its awesome for the price).

I was really into vinyl when apparently nobody was, the early/mid 1990s, according to many statistics that I've seen. But probably 99% of my purchases were used, and I didn't buy a new turntable (as opposed to used) until 2009, nearly 20 years into my pursuit of records. I didn't contribute to any vinyl related financial concern except for used record stores. Probably 1/3 of my records still have Plan 9 Records stickers from Richmond VA.

Which is to say, even if it all goes away, it doesn't really go away. Certainly there will always be people playing records, whether new vinyl and new record players are being produced or not.

I DO think, however, that vinyl is about to tank in the high end audiophile community. I have nothing to base this on other than a hunch. I think its going to go back to pre-2008 numbers really soon. I think a bunch of people who got in on it, are burning out and getting sick of the effort needed to get the best out of it.
 
I'd say most exhibitors at AXPONA had a turntable setup. Not always in use, but there nevertheless.

I'd agree that the high end isn't really large enough to make a large difference in sales.
And how many remaster-ed by <insert name of mastering genius here>, 180g re-re-re-releases of 'Kind of Blue' and $7000 turntables can the market absorb, anyway?

Anyway, for a guy like me who grew up with LPs, has a bunch of them, and a nice TT, I'll play them until I die or get put in a home somewhere. I can't help feeling that the LP fad will fade soon.

Which reminds me, I have a bunch of records to sell.
 
My view is likely flawed, but I'll type it anyways.

Let me start by saying that yes, LPs are very, very popular with the younger crowd, myself included. But I have noticed some hostility between individuals on other forums regarding "vinyls." Hostility such as harsh criticism of newbies and their newbie setups (even though those delivering the criticism don't have much more impressive gear), and criticism of other's taste in "vinyls."

It just seems like some younger people are beginning to realize that record listening/ collecting isn't making them as much of an individual as they once thought. Perhaps they will take their interests elsewhere? I don't know.

I've noticed the same sort of trend with craft beer as of late.

But to OP's question, 2013 will tell us.
 
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