Has vinyl peaked?

[SimplyOrange]

Washington Post has an article stating vinyl sales up 52% this year over last, and is enjoying the best sales since 1997.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-now-than-they-were-in-the-late-90s/?hpid=z10

Wow, up a lot more than I thought. And that's not counting all of the used vinyl that's being purchased as well.

I have a CD player with a DAC. And though some well mastered CDs sound great, I have yet to hear one that's comparable to a well mastered vinyl record. IMHO of course.

 

[parman]

It actually did. And what I noticed in local store is a sign of it - there are a lot of recently released vinyl now sits in used section bins. There used to be almost exclusively old stuff (from 1960-70-80s). Now at least a third - new editions. So people started selling recently purchased disks.

I have bought new LP's over the last 10 years that I didn't like and swapped them at record shops, that's nothing new.

 

[wizargoz]

Yep- you are slow today. Have some more coffee...

 

[matteos]

Sorta sad news...

All-in-all I would rather listen to the ripped files of Mumford & Sons --> Oppo 105. Just better SQ and detail. IMO, Sigh No More LP is better than Babel

However, I've been moving to this awareness of late with most all of my new issue LPs. The many LPs I have from the early 70s are still more engaging usually.

Ahh, thanks. Guess I'll save my pennies then, I'm pretty wary of modern releases due to this.

I did get atoms for peace - amok though on vinyl, mastering on that is really good, plus it's a 45.

 

[mironathetin]

May I give some impressions from Europe?

In the last years I observed the return of vinyl in the large electronic chains (like Saturn or Media Market). The prices of new LPs were very high (2-3 time the price of the CD releases) and my impression was, youngesters were the main clients. I felt misplaced in the vinyl section (I am 48). And I felt silly buying LPs and paying an obviously hyped price tag.

During the last months the shelf space that has been reserved for LPs seems to be used for different things again. Of the 30 meter wall in my neighbourhood store, that was once full of new LPs, yesterday only a small corner was left for LP space.

I am sure, the 'underground' stores will go on selling LPs to a small fraction of newly aquired fans, but I agree that it looks like an industry made hype that will be over soon.

Nevertheless, although I think a really good CDP sounds as good as a vinyl setup (due to the improvements of the, cough, DACs), there is a tactile difference in the handling of LPs and CDs. Its a bit like preparing a good tea compared to having a quick coffee. A guy at amzon wrote, he likes to watch the black disk spinning. Helps him to relax. Maybe the young croud is tired of quick consumption of files that you don't even have to download anymore. There is no emotional connection to the music that can be projected to a material thing. Everything has to be quick. That is kids and parents money being the target of a multibillion dollar industry: get it quick and easy, no time to download, just keep it in the cloud, but make sure you leave your money, move on immediately. Humans don't tick like that and enjoyment certainly feels different. Vinyl sets a stop and requires more involvement. The hunt for good LPs, that is part of the fun, clean, enjoy artwork and text without a magnifying glass and the joy, if it doesn't crackle at the wrong places. Comparable to warming up the valves of a quality amp, before the sound gets really smooth.

My first post here. I usually hang out at head-fi and remained a reader at audiokarma so far. I registered because I thought about a new amp (non-headamp this time). I also left a story about my recent vinyl impressions at head-fi, if someone is interested: http://www.head-fi.org/t/657701/vintage-turntable-compared-to-new-cdp

 

[ra7c7er]

If vinyl sales are growing by leaps and bounds, how many new record cutting lathes are on order?

None because there are still so many sitting idle. I was in contact with a presser recently (been around since the late 60s) who told me even with the increased business in the last 10 years they still have at most times at least one of their three machines down all the time. Not to mention that there are so many machines sitting in warehouses for parts. United Record Pressing apparently has an entire warehouse full of machines for parts that they sell to other pressers.

Also considering that very little new tech has gone into vinyl records in the last 40 years it's not like their is anything to upgrade too. Even United Records uses a couple presses that are nearing or over 40 years old.

 

[jeremyjustic]

Really what the point of this thread? All the speculation in the world isn't going to give us an answer and even if it does then what?

1: ok vinyl has peaked , lets all ditch our turntables for high rez downloads because that is the LATEST trend in audiophileland, didn't a lot of guys try that around 1984 only to regret the decision years later and come back to vinyl.

2: Vinyl hasn't peaked and is about to get even more popular. So what, 99% of guys here don't buy new vinyl or step foot in a record store so the increase in popularity will mean nothing to most of us except to give some old buzzards something else to bemoan about.

If you live your life letting latest trends dictate your behavior then you got bigger problems then turntables and DAC's.

 

[JohnVF]

Really what the point of this thread?

I've noticed a dramatic downturn in vinyl playback in the hi-fi hobby at the "high end" level, in stores, etc. And I was wondering if anybody else noticed it, and whether or not that was a sign of anything beyond the audio hobby, or just limited to it while vinyl collectors go about what they've always done with no notice of it. It wasn't an attack on vinyl it was me wanting to discuss something I have observed out in the world beyond speculation behind a computer screen.

That was the point of it. Where it went from there was beyond my control.

 

[Pandovski]

Miro IMO if anything owning music in a physical format is materialistic. Kids today listening on 5000 mp3 files through their ipods are less materialistic than a vinyl collector with 5000 LPs. Hoarding vinyl or cassettes or CDs is more "materialistic" than just focusing on the music regardless of format, quality and availability. The young hip crowd is actually "rebelling" against "the industry" and promoting Lo-Fi.

The question is does more hardware bring you closer to the music as we all think it does. Or is just the pleasure of owning things once you couldn't have owned?

John has been sticking this essential question under our noses for some time now. And its a valid question for one to ponder about.

 

[JohnVF]

This morning, at least temporarily, I eliminated the ability to play vinyl here as in both systems I'm running a DAC (w/volume control) as preamp. No analog inputs. I'm just listening to my server and MOG. I don't even have a CD player hooked up.

Earlier this week a woman I'm dating was over here to listen to records and at some point we just switched to MOG and didn't go back. She's a vinyl collector, as well, and had never seen MOG. She just started calling out songs to play and in 5 seconds they were playing. And now she has a MOG account.

I'm a bit divided on it though as a mutual friend of ours is in a somewhat popular band and in discussions with this he said that they get so little from sites like MOG and Spotify that its almost not worthwhile. Not that they get anything from used record sales, and not that anybody is really buying that many CDs. They make their money from touring, selling albums at shows, merch, etc.

Digital is a blessing and a curse. Not that people need to make music solely as a money making proposition, and not that people like my friend would stop making it even if it wasn't their only means of income.

 

[Pandovski]

Let me guess... the MOG kept playing the band Yes and song "Oh God" over and over again for couple of hours?

 

[JohnVF]

Let me guess... the MOG kept playing the band Yes and song "Oh God" over and over again for couple of hours?

I've never known prog and attractive ladies to intersect on a Venn diagram.

 

[steelglam]

Pandovski, I don't think it's purely a materialistic thing to own vinyl. Though I do agree that some people approach it that way, and there is also something innately great about having all of that music at your fingertips without needing a physical format.

As someone that's had multiple hard drives crash and lost music, I like the idea of having a physical format as a back-up. Whether that be vinyl or CD is irrelevant. Yes, I know one should "back everything up" and storage space is cheaper these days, but once your collection reaches a certain size, it's difficult to have everything backed up (at some point, it would be great to have a handful or so of multi-TB drives, but that's also kind of a headache). That being said, I am to the point where I: 1.) Will only purchase brand new releases from my FAVORITE artists (the ones for which I really do want a physical backup) on the physical format, and 2.) Will still buy used vinyl, tapes, and CDs if I run across them at thrift store prices.

I do still like the sound of vinyl, though. So, I'm not in a rush to dump the format. Plus, as someone that grew up listening to punk, hardcore, and indie stuff, some of the things I have on vinyl still haven't been released digitally (although some have). I also like the sound of CDs. And hell, ever since I picked up a nice Denon cassette deck at a thrift a couple of years ago, I think even some of my old tapes sound pretty good...and I have a lot of stuff on that format from when I was a kid. It all has its place in my mind.

 

[Pandovski]

Pandovski, I don't think it's purely a materialistic thing to own vinyl. Though I do agree that some people approach it that way, and there is also something innately great about having all of that music at your fingertips without needing a physical format.

As someone that's had multiple hard drives crash and lost music, I like the idea of having a physical format as a back-up. Whether that be vinyl or CD is irrelevant. Yes, I know one should "back everything up" and storage space is cheaper these days, but once your collection reaches a certain size, it's difficult to have everything backed up (at some point, it would be great to have a handful or so of multi-TB drives, but that's also kind of a headache). That being said, I am to the point where I: 1.) Will only purchase brand new releases from my FAVORITE artists (the ones for which I really do want a physical backup) on the physical format, and 2.) Will still buy used vinyl, tapes, and CDs if I run across them at thrift store prices.

I do still like the sound of vinyl, though. So, I'm not in a rush to dump the format. Plus, as someone that grew up listening to punk, hardcore, and indie stuff, some of the things I have on vinyl still haven't been released digitally (although some have). I also like the sound of CDs. And hell, ever since I picked up a nice Denon cassette deck at a thrift a couple of years ago, I think even some of my old tapes sound pretty good...and I have a lot of stuff on that format from when I was a kid. It all has its place in my mind.

Thats all ok. I meant that any format that is sold in a physical form is a materialistic thing, not just singling out vinyl. Materialistic not used in a pejorative (negative) way, just factual. Collectors collect for many other factors, not just whats on the LP, tape or CD.

IMO all music should be free money wise and physical format wise. Artists should earn from touring, concerts, broadcasting, sponsors etc. Selling physical media is not crucial to the music industry's existence. That way there are far less steps between me discovering and enjoying music.

 

[Pandovski]

I've never known prog and attractive ladies to intersect on a Venn diagram.

Indeed. It was a cheesy joke anyway.

 

[for_p1]

I'm a bit divided on it though as a mutual friend of ours is in a somewhat popular band and in discussions with this he said that they get so little from sites like MOG and Spotify that its almost not worthwhile. Not that they get anything from used record sales, and not that anybody is really buying that many CDs. They make their money from touring, selling albums at shows, merch, etc.

Digital is a blessing and a curse. Not that people need to make music solely as a money making proposition, and not that people like my friend would stop making it even if it wasn't their only means of income.

With invention of digital distribution selling records will become more like selling memorabilia. And on-line services will work more to bring attention of listeners to artists (that is what I like Pandora for). Main mean of income will be live performances. I think this is a positive trend. Unlike literature, music is not something that should be consumed in solitude. This is interaction between venue, performers and crowd what makes all experience. This is not what large labels want to see though.

 

[JohnVF]

With invention of digital distribution selling records will become more like selling memorabilia. And on-line services will work more to bring attention of listeners to artists (that is what I like Pandora for). Main mean of income will be live performances. I think this is a positive trend. Unlike literature, music is not something that should be consumed in solitude. This is interaction between venue, performers and crowd what makes all experience. This is not what large labels want to see though.

Its unfortunate because the rigors of touring is what breaks a lot of bands up. Its not glamorous at anything but the highest levels. After the novelty wears off it can become a repetitive chore of soundchecks, cheap motels or a smelly bus, with little financial gain compared to the toll it takes on family and friendships. If I'm enjoying an artist's output I like to see them get something back for it, and that is why I am divided on my admiration of MOG. I had thought they'd see more return on it as its above the board.

 

[oblomov]

I can't help but think...

A young Bob Dylan in early sixties Greenwich Village saw a niche to be filled. He's a shrewd guy. I'll take this folkie stuff and turn it on it's ear and fill clubs and maybe...make some money selling records.

I'd imagine (correct me if I'm wrong) that quite a few folks have listened to Dylan's subsequent records in perfect solitude while staring at their stereos. After purchasing the record.

If you had told the young man that he would necessarily have to work his ass off touring incessantly and hustling tons of tee shirts to make a halfway decent living, I might imagine that today you would have...

Zimmerman's Plumbing and Heating has been very successful over the past 40years in the northern Minnesota area, he's the go-to guy for all of your HVAC needs. Call for an estimate today.

And that great Blood on the Tracks album? You never heard it because it was never created.

 

[for_p1]

Its unfortunate because the rigors of touring is what breaks a lot of bands up. Its not glamorous at anything but the highest levels. After the novelty wears off it can become a repetitive chore of soundchecks, cheap motels or a smelly bus, with little financial gain compared to the toll it takes on family and friendships. If I'm enjoying an artist's output I like to see them get something back for it, and that is why I am divided on my admiration of MOG. I had thought they'd see more return on it as its above the board.

One needs to understand that music can make living for only tiny minority of authors and performers. This is the same like it in literature - only very few top lever writers do not have another - day - job. But on the positive side one does not need a contract with major label to make his music available worldwide. I think this is most important advantage of today's world.

 

[kmulkey]

I think, if you believe artists deserve to be compensated fairly for their work, and you patronize web sites, etc, that don't compensate those artists fairly, you're kind of a hypocrite.


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