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Headshells for SME 3009 (mki I believe)

A

A Montreal

Member
Hi there everyone,

I am finally taking my SME 3009 tonearm in to get fixed. It is missing the connector for the headshell. Presently the wires go from the cartridge straight in. And the headshell can’t be perfectly set up as a result of the missing connector.

I have an Ortofon 2M Bronze cartridge and have just purchased a Nagaoka MP200. I plan to be able to swap the two regularly by having them set up by a local technician… properly weighted and adjusted, each with their own headshell.

Firstly, I am wondering what would be an ideal weight of headshell for my set up. I ask because the original SME headshell I have is in bad shape. Any suggestions of headshell producers?

Last year I purchased one from Audiosilente but I just realized that it is 15.8g. I am wondering if it is way too heavy for the arm consideing that the original headshell is around 6.5-7.5g. Or does it not really matter as counter weights will take care of that.

Here are photos of my arm in its present state:

https://share.icloud.com/photos/01cRZFYkdoyTt7tfE0X96k_-A

https://share.icloud.com/photos/040bg15KNVIGYiJ8hgGX42mzg

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0feW0ra0CTHQLZn3V_DXoxTaA
 
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I run the 3 hole technics headshell on two carts without issue with the standard weight, I run a sl1200 with a sme3009 so it's a good mix of technics and sme. Yours is a SME 3009 series 2 unimproved same as mine.
 
Setting up two headshells with different cartridges to allow swapping on an SME is going to be a bit more difficult than with other tonearms. This is because the position of the needle for overhang, whether you call that the distance from the headshell washer to the tip or the distance the tip overhangs the spindle is adjusted on the SME by moving the tonearm in the slotted cutout. For this reason, I would find headshells that have slots to mount the cartridge, as most do. SME has headshells that only have one mounting position, for most of the ones used with these arms.

Further set up, requiring the mass of the cartridge to be compensated by the location of the weights to balance the arm from side to side, means that both headshells with cartridge should weigh the same. Possible but not the easiest way to use the tonearm. A qualified tech could do the work needed.

Finally, the tracking force applied for one cartridge might be different than that needed or applied when used for the other cartridge because of the center of gravity of the headshell/cartridge piece.

How much set up are you going to be doing once the headshells are ready to go? The SME is a different arm as far as set up goes and it would be good if you can do some of the final adjustments to make your headshell swap and easy option.

As far as the mass of the headshell, I would look at the info on the arm you have as it probably specifies a range of cartridge weights that will work with the arm. This is assuming the use of the SME shell so using a heavier shell would decrease the max weight of the cartridge. Not to hard to get past this.

Next is the resonance frequency of the two cartridges as they are set up. Investigation of the cartridge compliance would allow determination of the need for more or less mass in the shell to get this resonance correct. Correct is anywhere between 8-11Hz on the VE chart and one can really go at least another Hz or two in each direction and have decent playback. This would be part of the work needed to make this an easy swap option for you.

But we need to know how much tonearm adjustment you will be able to do to point you further down the trail to completion of this 'upgrade'.
 
Just to clear up your Heading, your SME is not a series 1 but a subsequent model.
The series 1's actually came with a head shell quite distinctive when compared to later iterations.
 
Can't open your photos but OK I take 'bkthekibng' word on it. So it's an SME3009 SII (not S2 as the S2 is the specific written distingo name for the 'Improved' with fixed headshell). Yours is considered of 'medium effective mass' (toward medium although it can easily accommodate extra effective mass if need to be but that's not you) so it's still a fair theoretical match for your 2M Bronze cart of (not so much but still) high compliance.

Even if the Ortofon site states that these 2M cartridges are compatible with Rega turntables and their tonearms are generally 11 to 12 grams effective mass ones that which is medium toward light effective mass category, your SME3009 SII (pre-improved) is 16 grams effective mass so more medium toward medium and 15 grams being the pivot point from medium toward light and heavy effective mass you should be fine IMO.

Your Audiosilente headshell is too heavy for the 2M Bronze cartridge. I see on the Ortofon's site that their pre-mounted 2M Bronze on headshells weight some 16.7 grams. The cartridge alone weights 7.2 grams. So likely a headshell weighting 7 to 8 grams (if you'd wish to stay in their patterns) plus wires and bolts should take you to similar specifications. OEM Swiss cheese SME's headshell alone weight 6.5 grams FWIW.
 
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Blue Shadow said:
I though this arm was 12.5g effective mass.
Click to expand...
DOH. My bad. You're right. So even better if one wishes to 'comply' to Ortofon's advertised recommended (not that that means it's the best 'match' in real but commercially at least and likely not far from the theoretical 'match') combination. Sorry Y'all and thanks 'Blue Shadow' for correcting me. I won't correct my post to keep the "line" of the thread coherent.
 
So this means that the headshell that Audiosilente sold me is useless. Is that what I am to understand?

Here is the info I have on the cartridges:

Nagaoka MP200
Weight: 6.5g
Tracking force: 1.7g

Ortofon 2M Bronze
Weight: 7.2g
Tracking force: 1.5g

With a headshell of 15g approx, we are WAY too heavy. I am understanding this correctly? It would be odd because I clearly communicated with him what arm I would be using the headshell for.
 
Blue Shadow said:
Setting up two headshells with different cartridges to allow swapping on an SME is going to be a bit more difficult than with other tonearms. This is because the position of the needle for overhang, whether you call that the distance from the headshell washer to the tip or the distance the tip overhangs the spindle is adjusted on the SME by moving the tonearm in the slotted cutout. For this reason, I would find headshells that have slots to mount the cartridge, as most do. SME has headshells that only have one mounting position, for most of the ones used with these arms.

Further set up, requiring the mass of the cartridge to be compensated by the location of the weights to balance the arm from side to side, means that both headshells with cartridge should weigh the same. Possible but not the easiest way to use the tonearm. A qualified tech could do the work needed.

Finally, the tracking force applied for one cartridge might be different than that needed or applied when used for the other cartridge because of the center of gravity of the headshell/cartridge piece.

How much set up are you going to be doing once the headshells are ready to go? The SME is a different arm as far as set up goes and it would be good if you can do some of the final adjustments to make your headshell swap and easy option.

As far as the mass of the headshell, I would look at the info on the arm you have as it probably specifies a range of cartridge weights that will work with the arm. This is assuming the use of the SME shell so using a heavier shell would decrease the max weight of the cartridge. Not to hard to get past this.

Next is the resonance frequency of the two cartridges as they are set up. Investigation of the cartridge compliance would allow determination of the need for more or less mass in the shell to get this resonance correct. Correct is anywhere between 8-11Hz on the VE chart and one can really go at least another Hz or two in each direction and have decent playback. This would be part of the work needed to make this an easy swap option for you.

But we need to know how much tonearm adjustment you will be able to do to point you further down the trail to completion of this 'upgrade'.
Click to expand...
I would get headshells with the slits that allow for the adjustments and would have both headshells and the arms and all set up by a pro.

I am truly ignorant of how this all works and what is needed. I had imagined that by getting the two cartridges set up each on their own headshell, using the slits for adjustments and using extra weight needed for the cartridge that requires it, it would be possible to have two headshells.

Is this a ridiculous idea?

For the antiskate, I assumed that once I know where the little nylon string needs to hang for each, I could simply move it as needed.
 
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The Ortofon would like to be in an SME headshell. Without a compliance for the MP, going by the tracking force, it too would want a light weight headshell.

Slits for adjustment would allow you to position both diamonds at the same distance from the tonearm coupling thereby eliminating one adjustment the movement of the arm in its elongated cutout.
 
A Montreal said:
Is this a ridiculous idea?
Click to expand...
Not completely but there are some adjustments of the SME arm that might still need to be made.
The adjustments include
1) position of the stylus for overhang (alignment) by moving the base of the tonearm in the elongated cutout. Other arms use the slots in the tonearm. So the recommendation to use slotted shells is correct to help eliminate that adjustment
2) adjustment of the lateral weight to compensate for the mass of the cartridge, the arm that sticks out from the side of the tonearm in the back. The heavier the cartridge the further out this needs to be.
3) tracking force. Adjusted by sliding weight on the lateral weight arm. Affected by the center of mass of the cartridge headshell, assuming both the 2M and MP weigh the same when installed on a headshell.
4) antiskate, the hanging weight. Adjusted for tracking force in 0.5g increments, generally, should be easy to leave it when changing shells since they track with similar forces.

Some of these can be standardized with proper set up of the cartridges on headshells. Others might need to be tweaked a bit.

That is why I asked the OP if there will be any adjustments when changing headshells.
 
A Montreal said:
So this means that the headshell that Audiosilente sold me is useless. Is that what I am to understand?

Here is the info I have on the cartridges:

Nagaoka MP200
Weight: 6.5g
Tracking force: 1.7g

Ortofon 2M Bronze
Weight: 7.2g
Tracking force: 1.5g

With a headshell of 15g approx, we are WAY too heavy. I am understanding this correctly? It would be odd because I clearly communicated with him what arm I would be using the headshell for.
Click to expand...
Don't be so tight on specifications. There are references figure that can be challenged some sometimes even to unexpected results of the better kinds or not too. That's true. Bare then in mind of these as "ballpark" figures for theorical match in possibilities or not. Here the Audiposilente heavy mass headshell is aimed indeed for low compliant suspension cartridges.

The theoretical match between a headshell understood as part of a tonearm has to do with the tonearm's total calculated effective mass with the headshell (another ballpark estimation) to match theoretically a cartridge's compliance. Audiosilente didn't sell you a not-matching headshell for your SME tonearm. It is eventually. Depending of what cartridge you are to put on it.
 
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Blue Shadow said:
Not completely but there are some adjustments of the SME arm that might still need to be made.
The adjustments include
1) position of the stylus for overhang (alignment) by moving the base of the tonearm in the elongated cutout. Other arms use the slots in the tonearm. So the recommendation to use slotted shells is correct to help eliminate that adjustment
2) adjustment of the lateral weight to compensate for the mass of the cartridge, the arm that sticks out from the side of the tonearm in the back. The heavier the cartridge the further out this needs to be.
3) tracking force. Adjusted by sliding weight on the lateral weight arm. Affected by the center of mass of the cartridge headshell, assuming both the 2M and MP weigh the same when installed on a headshell.
4) antiskate, the hanging weight. Adjusted for tracking force in 0.5g increments, generally, should be easy to leave it when changing shells since they track with similar forces.

Some of these can be standardized with proper set up of the cartridges on headshells. Others might need to be tweaked a bit.

That is why I asked the OP if there will be any adjustments when changing headshells.
Click to expand...
So even with additional weights to balance the two cartridge/headshell combos and the use of the slits and adjusting the anti-skating (which seems simple), I would still need to make these other adjustments every time I go from one combo to the other. If this is the case, I might just forget about the Ortofon and move on to the Nagaoka. The thing is… many of my albums sound great with the Ortofon and I love the level of detail.

Unless the technician can explain to me clearly how to make the necessary adjustments. But I don’t wish to regularly be playing with that weight that hangs on the side with the metal rod (as an example).

Hmmm
 
timmy.timmy said:
Don't be so tight on specifications. There are references figure that can be challenged some sometimes even to unexpected results of the better kinds or not too. That's true. Bare then in mind as "ballpark" figures for theatrical match possibilities or not. Here the Audiposilente heavy mass headshell is aimed indeed for low compliant suspension cartridges.

The theoretical match between a headshell understood as part of a tonearm has to do with the tonearm's total calculated effective mass with the headshell (another ballpark estimation) to match theoretically to a cartridge. Audiosilente didn't sell you a not-matching headshell for your SME tonearm. It is eventually. Depending of what cartridge you are to put on it.
Click to expand...
But when I purchased it, he was aware of my exact arm (photos were sent) along with the fact that I was going to use the Ortofon 2M Bronze. These were the parameters with which we were working.
 
If you can work with small parts, there is no reason to be afraid of doing these adjustments. The SME is the MOST DOCUMENTED TONEARM ON THE WEB and once you grab the manuals for your arm, read them over a few times, look over your arm and ask some questions, you should be able to change cartridges...if you can mess with small parts.

I change cartridges on my Magnepan arms in less than a minute, adjusting tracking force, azimuth and VTA. The location of the stylus is the same headshell to headshell.

If you can't find the manuals and aren't registered on vinyl engine maybe someone here has the manuals and can provide them. There may be other places to get them. I haven't searched for your model, having only the Imp models.
 
A Montreal said:
But when I purchased it, he was aware of my exact arm (photos were sent) along with the fact that I was going to use the Ortofon 2M Bronze. These were the parameters with which we were working.
Click to expand...
Yes indeed. That is not good customer's advice IMO. But maybe you could fall for a lower compliant cartridge one day that will benefit from such a heavy headshell... But as 'Blue Shadow' told you swapping of cartridges pre-fitted on headshells for a swift operation is likely not as simple as you imagine. But you can try. The best way to learn is practice. So there's no US stopping YOU. We're here to advice and help just like we were.
 
I take the advise seriously. As in music production, and most things actually, I am a micro-adjuster. So if as Blue Shadow mentioned in their last post that it is doable, I will get the necessary tools, become a master, and enjoy it. But as it stands, I have little knowledge of what it entails. I'll start by speaking with my tech, get his thoughts, perhaps work with just the MP-200 for a while and do my research in the meantime until I am ready to go that route. Now I have to find an appropriate headshell.
 
OK. I did some of that on my SME3009 'Improved' SII (originally with fixed headshell as a first DIY tweak conversion on a tight budget into a heavier effective mass tonearm to meet my beloved Denon DL-102 cartridge low compliance (although no manufacturer's compliance specifications given) by ear... And finally open int up and dismantling it completely twice as the final time I realized that I had to renew the inner original wirings (as we found out (me and a friend helper) that it'd had been tweaked in before and some bits were messy) so if ever don't hesitate to ask. I remember it all. And am happy as proud as to what I have achieved with. It was long but that's necessary to evaluate the value of each tweak individually and if ever not to my liking unwind instantly. Some classic beloved tweaks by some really didn't took me where I wanted to go.
 
I should clarify that when I mention repairing the tonearm, it is simply that, though it came with the connector to allow for removing the headshell, the inner portion of the connector is broken. As it is, the headshell sits in the connector but is not stable. It moves around within… a horrible situation indeed, thus the need of a pro repair.
 
I have been looking at my options and am wondering if instead of having my arm repaired, which will take many hours and come to quite a chunk of change, plus extra parts and such, am I not better off buying a refurbished tonearm on Reverb from Yokohama? They do appear to be in great shape.
 
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